Cateye muscle in on Garmin territory

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 27 May 2013, 20:41

Most of us are using Garmin devices, but cateye is getting is getting in on the game and I understand they are under cutting Garmin on price.

http://www.cateye.com/uk/products/detail/CC-GL10/

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marc2131
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Postby marc2131 » 28 May 2013, 08:15

Always been keen to get a Garmin. This makes it more accessible.
One question; I always thought GPS-only data is not as good as when you have sensors hardwired into the system such as how Garmins are set up at the moment.
Constantly hear about irregularities on GPS reliant iPhone Strava readings.

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JoTheBuilder
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Postby JoTheBuilder » 28 May 2013, 09:26

I find my iPhone is much more reliable from a GPS point of view than the Garmin. However, it obviously doesn't record heart rate and cadence which is where the Garmin comes in.

timothy_clifford
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Postby timothy_clifford » 28 May 2013, 12:24

JoTheBuilder wrote:I find my iPhone is much more reliable from a GPS point of view than the Garmin. However, it obviously doesn't record heart rate and cadence which is where the Garmin comes in.


Wiggle, could you help please?

Garmin ANT Plus Adapter for iPhone

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Why, thank you.

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Postby Lizanne » 28 May 2013, 12:40

waaaa! mind blown.

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marc2131
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Postby marc2131 » 28 May 2013, 12:44

timothy_clifford wrote:
JoTheBuilder wrote:I find my iPhone is much more reliable from a GPS point of view than the Garmin. However, it obviously doesn't record heart rate and cadence which is where the Garmin comes in.


Wiggle, could you help please?

Garmin ANT Plus Adapter for iPhone

Image

Why, thank you.


:shock: Does this mean the Garmin base unit is redundant? Just get that Garmin dongle and your smartphone functions in exactly the same manner?
All I need is a smartphone now. Can anyone vouch for this dongle?

timothy_clifford
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Postby timothy_clifford » 28 May 2013, 13:28

marc2131 wrote:
timothy_clifford wrote:
JoTheBuilder wrote:I find my iPhone is much more reliable from a GPS point of view than the Garmin. However, it obviously doesn't record heart rate and cadence which is where the Garmin comes in.


Wiggle, could you help please?

Garmin ANT Plus Adapter for iPhone

Why, thank you.


:shock: Does this mean the Garmin base unit is redundant? Just get that Garmin dongle and your smartphone functions in exactly the same manner?
All I need is a smartphone now. Can anyone vouch for this dongle?


Some phones have a built in GPS unit (some Android devices) but the iPhone uses triangulation to have a 'best guess' at the location of the phone. The accuracy of triangulation depends on the number of mobile network cells that the phone can access. The iPhone can also use wireless to help the location services, but you have to turn it on and Google has to have mapped any wireless services in the area (the Google Maps cars do this).

So what does the ANT+ doggle do? It allows your iPhone to receive signals from the Garmin HR monitor and Garmin cadence/speed sensors. Also any other ANT+ wireless device.

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Postby andrewm » 28 May 2013, 17:52

Battery life is an issue with smartphones.

As is durability. I don't want my phone mounted on my stem.

Although wahoo have an ant+ case. And soon will have an auxiliary battery.
http://www.wahoofitness.com/Products/Wa ... iPhone.asp

The other option is a Bluetooth hr strap and speed and cadence sensor
http://www.wahoofitness.com/Products/Wa ... Sensor.asp

Convergence.

I do wonder about garmins plans to stay relevant. What will a stand alone GPS unit offer that a smartphone cannot?

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JoTheBuilder
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Postby JoTheBuilder » 28 May 2013, 18:39

I know it's taboo to mention triathlons around here but I can't see a smart phone taking the place of a product like the Forerunner in the near future. Waterproofing, mobility all considerations...

I will acknowledge, however, that if they bring in the iWatch as predicted, this could well take its place in years to come.

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Postby weiyun » 28 May 2013, 19:17

timothy_clifford wrote:Some phones have a built in GPS unit (some Android devices) but the iPhone uses triangulation to have a 'best guess' at the location of the phone. The accuracy of triangulation depends on the number of mobile network cells that the phone can access.

That's not quite correct.

Current top end smartphones like the iPhone and Samsung S4 etc all have built-in GPS as well as aGPS (Assisted GPS). GPS is just GPS like what we have on the Garmin, totally dependent on GPS satellite signals (some also use the Russian GLONASS satellites). aGPS uses additional land based signal data from GSM mobile base stations as well as wifi bases for even faster location finding. And they all depend on triangulation to determine the location. So in practice, an aGPS smartphone will be able to define its location far faster than a traditional satellite dependent device from a cold start, then, conventional GPS will continue to provide for the localisation.

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weiyun
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Postby weiyun » 28 May 2013, 19:20

JoTheBuilder wrote:I find my iPhone is much more reliable from a GPS point of view than the Garmin. However, it obviously doesn't record heart rate and cadence which is where the Garmin comes in.

iPhone is fast for localisation as long as it has access to aGPS (ie. Within mobile coverage area), otherwise its GPS performance may not be as good as a Garmin unit (depending on which unit and included antenna). iPhone's major weakness for this purpose is battery life. Heavy GPS and ANT+ use drains battery big time, but the new Bluetooth protocol is quite sparing on battery juice. A potential alternative for accessories.

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weiyun
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Postby weiyun » 28 May 2013, 19:43

JoTheBuilder wrote:I know it's taboo to mention triathlons around here but I can't see a smart phone taking the place of a product like the Forerunner in the near future. Waterproofing, mobility all considerations...

You can go for Google Glass though.
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timothy_clifford
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Postby timothy_clifford » 28 May 2013, 20:17

weiyun wrote:
timothy_clifford wrote:Some phones have a built in GPS unit (some Android devices) but the iPhone uses triangulation to have a 'best guess' at the location of the phone. The accuracy of triangulation depends on the number of mobile network cells that the phone can access.

That's not quite correct.

Current top end smartphones like the iPhone and Samsung S4 etc all have built-in GPS as well as aGPS (Assisted GPS).


So it does. I learn something new about my iPhone everyday. Rather embarrassing as I work for a telco :oops:

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Postby James Rogers » 28 May 2013, 21:15

If you like to have your cake in the smart phone vs ant+ device world, you could try the oddly named Viiiiva heartrate monitor.

It is a Ant+ to Bluetooth 4 bridge - so you can mix Garmin sensors, bluetooth sensors, and smartphone type devices. Works with a smartphone and Garmin unit simultaneously. World domination from a bike.

I use mine mainly for puerile entertainment whilst using rollers/trainer. Obviously there are also more meaningful applications like making your smartphone a functional Garmin replacement without dongles or new sensors. The Viiiiva itself is being upgraded so it can store .fit files and other 'mazing stuff.

p.s the Cateye to get is the Stealth 50, which is ant+ compatible.

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Postby jimmy » 31 May 2013, 09:03

Even if nothing else, it will create competition which will hopefully drive prices down and inovation up.

I don't see it as a bad thing.

James

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 31 May 2013, 10:35

jimmy wrote:Even if nothing else, it will create competition which will hopefully drive prices down and inovation up.

I don't see it as a bad thing.

James


And Cateye have produced some quality products in the past, so hopefully this is another one

timothy_clifford
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Postby timothy_clifford » 31 May 2013, 18:56

mikesbytes wrote:
jimmy wrote:Even if nothing else, it will create competition which will hopefully drive prices down and inovation up.

I don't see it as a bad thing.

James


And Cateye have produced some quality products in the past, so hopefully this is another one


Replace "Cateye" with "Nokia". I wish them the best, but...

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 31 May 2013, 21:16

Well the accuracy depends on your needs. Until about a year ago, my data was dependent on reading someone elses computer, sorry I wasn't checking out how many gms your stem weighed.

Strava only measures to whole seconds, so on shorter distances there is a degree of inaccuracy. I've lost a KOM on that.... :( ....

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utopia
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Postby utopia » 05 Jun 2013, 13:55

I considered the Cateye seriously
Note 1: upload to Strava is a 2 step process (like a Bryton)
Note 2: the screen display is limited (for example it will not have the gradient )

If you are still keen , $207.22 delivered for the ANT+ model with HRM and speed/cadence
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/cateye-stealth- ... ce-sensor/



However, if you rather go with Garmin - Bikebug is doing a great deal this week on Garmin 510 with HRM and speed/cadence
http://www.bikebug.com/computers-heart- ... -2783.html
$311.74 delivered

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utopia
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Postby utopia » 05 Jun 2013, 14:10

Or if you are looking for the GPS (but non-ANT+) model
Stealth 10 : http://www.wiggle.co.uk/cateye-stealth-10-gps-computer/ is $92.10
vs
Garmin 200 : http://www.bikebug.com/computers-heart- ... -6103.html (ignore the implied heart rate in the webaddress, this is not ANT+ capable ) that is currently $115.01 on BikeBug


Personally I would recommend the Garmin options just so that you can upload the files directly to Strava, with or without installing Garmin plugins, and also because you don't have to wait for the Cateye to be actually available.

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utopia
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Postby utopia » 06 Jun 2013, 13:00

Ouch.

http://www.probikekit.com.au/bicycle-co ... l=thgemail

PBK is now doing Garmin 500 ANT+with HRM and SpeedCadence for $234.74
Yes, it's not 510, so you dont get LIVE CONNECT or a Out-mount. But is that worth $78 ?
More importantly $27 to get a Garmin 500 over a Cateye 50 package.

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 06 Jun 2013, 19:34

If I was going for a Garmin, I'd pay the extra for the 510 over the 500. Personal choice I know.

Bike Bug have good prices on Garmin


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