New bike choices - Found, see page 3.

Bicycle related chatter & discussion
othy
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Postby othy » 09 Jan 2010, 21:13

I've started looking at a new bike to replace my OCR-1 destroyed by the taxi.

The bike is for commuting / training / wet weather and a bit of racing, until I can decide on what I really want for the weekend and racing (a long and perilous journey).

Budget is between $2000 to absolute max of $3000, which gives a fair range of bikes. Looking at something with slightly relaxed geometry to complement my eventual race bike. Prefer a quality Aluminium frame over cheaper carbon.

Current front runner is a Fuji ACR 1.0, though I don't know much about the Fuji brand, anyone have some opinions? Blend of Rival / Force with Mavic Aksiums, BB30 bottom end. Retails for $2599.
http://www.fujibikes.com/Road/Performan ... R-1-0.aspx

Other options?
Felt Z75 - Full 105, CXP22 wheels - $2499
http://www.feltbicycles.com/Australia/2 ... s/Z75.aspx

Cannondale Caad9-5 - Not really relaxed geometry, Full 105, RS-10 wheels, BB30 - $2800 (possibly a little pricey for components?)
http://www3.cannondale.com/bikes/10/cus ... RA95C.html

Argon 18 Radon - Full Rival, R500 wheels, looked at the sizing chart for this one and couldn't really see a fit. $2699
http://www.argon18bike.com/main.cfm?l=e ... item=Radon

Scott Speedster S20 - 105 / Ultegra / Generic Crankset Mix, only has a compact crankset, comes in flat bar or drop bar, ugly color, Alex 28 wheels - $2199
http://scottusa.com/us_en/product/8295/ ... edster_s20

Speciliazed Allez Comp - 105 with tektro brakes, Mavic CXP-22 wheels - $2600
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBC ... temId=9256
Last edited by othy on 17 Jan 2010, 16:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Toff
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Postby Toff » 11 Jan 2010, 12:42

If you want a workhorse bike for commuting and training, I'm not sure why you would choose aluminium, which typically has a working life of no more than 8 years, dents easily, corrodes carbon parts, and has no resale value for the next upgrade. It's also a pain in the neck to have to check for cracks all the time. I'm on the verge of cutting up my aluminium frame after less than 5 years of light use...

The other thing I dislike is integrated headsets, but I guess if the frame is unlikely to last longer than the headset, then I suppose it doesn't matter that you can't replace the headset...

If you are still convinced that aluminium is the way to go, I think the Fuji is the best one on your shortlist. In my experience, Fuji bikes have long top tubes, but that ACR 1.0 seems okay. In fact the 56cm (which I'm guessing is the one you would get) is close to square, so I reckon it will handle very similarly to a race bike. I also don't think it is too different geometrically to the Cannondale, which would be my second choice too. The cannondale has a slightly shorter seat tube, and half a centimetre shorter chainstays, but that's not going to make much difference to handling...

The Argon 18 would be 3rd choice, but if it doesn't fit then who cares? Not impressed by the others.

Probably not all that helpful, but you asked for opinions. :wink:

christian
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Postby christian » 11 Jan 2010, 12:59

It interesting how on the Fuji the groupset is mostly Rival with a Force RD. I find this a bit strange, its only material differences between the Rival and Force deraileurs, as far as I'm aware. It would have been better if they gave you Force levers.

othy
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Postby othy » 11 Jan 2010, 13:50

Toff wrote:If you want a workhorse bike for commuting and training, I'm not sure why you would choose aluminium, which typically has a working life of no more than 8 years, dents easily, corrodes carbon parts, and has no resale value for the next upgrade. It's also a pain in the neck to have to check for cracks all the time. I'm on the verge of cutting up my aluminium frame after less than 5 years of light use...

The other thing I dislike is integrated headsets, but I guess if the frame is unlikely to last longer than the headset, then I suppose it doesn't matter that you can't replace the headset...

If you are still convinced that aluminium is the way to go, I think the Fuji is the best one on your shortlist. In my experience, Fuji bikes have long top tubes, but that ACR 1.0 seems okay. In fact the 56cm (which I'm guessing is the one you would get) is close to square, so I reckon it will handle very similarly to a race bike. I also don't think it is too different geometrically to the Cannondale, which would be my second choice too. The cannondale has a slightly shorter seat tube, and half a centimetre shorter chainstays, but that's not going to make much difference to handling...

The Argon 18 would be 3rd choice, but if it doesn't fit then who cares? Not impressed by the others.

Probably not all that helpful, but you asked for opinions. :wink:


Thanks Toff for taking the time to respond. I think your choices have mirrored my top 3.

I was interested in an Aluminium frame as it tended to offer better quality and value for the components in the price range. Also for the weight - I know it is a training / commute bike but I'd still like something enjoyable. I am open for suggestions for other frame materials within my budget. I didn't really consider frame or component lifetime in my decision, only that it would be 10 speed compatible with any future purchase for part sharing.

You are right about the geometry and currently I am having trouble deciding between a 56 (56 top-tup, 56 c-c) and a 58 (57 top-tube, 58 c-c).

I tend to find that my current bike is a little large. It had a 12cm stem which i changed to an 11 (what I had on hand), which was still a bit to long for me. You can view its size below, I am on a L - which has a 57.5cm top tube in a compact geometry
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-AU/bik ... 128/28923/

Christian - yes, it does seem odd, does the Force RD offer any shifting quality change?

christian
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Postby christian » 11 Jan 2010, 14:24

As far as I can see the only difference between in the Force and Rival RD is that the Force RD has a carbon cage and a magnesium inner link whilst the Rival is all aluminium. So in a lab you'd be able to detect a shifting difference due to the weight difference, but on a bike you won't be able to tell the difference. The weight difference is only 10g.

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 11 Jan 2010, 14:37

Personally I think that 5 years is sufficient for frame life, after that most of the components are pretty much had it anyway.

Toff, I've had a different experience with Aluminum, my Giant OCR frame is as good as the day I brought it, despite being sent down the road on several occasions and being thru 3 sets of wheels, it appears to be as good as the day I purchased it

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weiyun
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Postby weiyun » 11 Jan 2010, 14:51

How much difference can there be with "relaxed" vs "unrelaxed" geometries in this range of road bikes? 5psi less pressure, better chamois and bar tapes and it's all mute, no?

I think that the CAAD9 is a good option and when all the parts have died, there's still a quality frame that can be used for racing or whatever. I further understand that Cannondale has a lifetime warranty and is as good as it gets.

Alternatively with $2500-3000 you can look at the secondhand market. You can potentially get some excellent used bikes if patient and then upgrade components as desired.

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fenn_paddler
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Postby fenn_paddler » 11 Jan 2010, 14:54

Toff wrote:If you want a workhorse bike for commuting and training, I'm not sure why you would choose aluminium, which typically has a working life of no more than 8 years, dents easily, corrodes carbon parts, and has no resale value for the next upgrade. It's also a pain in the neck to have to check for cracks all the time. I'm on the verge of cutting up my aluminium frame after less than 5 years of light use...


I upgraded my commuter from 22 year old cannondale to single speed last year. As the c'dale was somewhat corroded, had worn out components, a significant dint from an accident, and had a seat tube that had supported a heavy kid carrier through two kids, I decided not to sell it in case the thing failed in the future & I would be held responsible. I ended up cutting it up for council disposal but in retrospect I should have ignored the aluminium naysayers and had it repainted instead.

In contrast to this I've had a number of chromoly bikes fail on chainstays, seat tube & down tubes. I don't think this is unusual for a taller rider, however the point is that aluminium frames aren't necessarily disposable items with a limited lifespan that need to be x-rayed for cracks before every ride.

I think a quality aluminium frame would be a good choice over a lower end crabon fibre frame.

christian
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Postby christian » 11 Jan 2010, 15:06

There is always the option to build a bike. My CF road bike cost around $3400. If you can get a frame cheap enough then its a good option. Cheap group sets can be found on ebay, I got my Force groupset for about $1100 from a local ebay seller. The main problem with going down this route is its hard to stay on budget as you always see better parts for not too much more, but it all adds up.

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Trouty
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Postby Trouty » 11 Jan 2010, 21:22

christian wrote:There is always the option to build a bike. My CF road bike cost around $3400. If you can get a frame cheap enough then its a good option. Cheap group sets can be found on ebay, I got my Force groupset for about $1100 from a local ebay seller. The main problem with going down this route is its hard to stay on budget as you always see better parts for not too much more, but it all adds up.


If you are building a bike like Christian, also check out MB cycles on the web (www.mbcycles.com.au). He also is a seller on Ebay, but at least if you buy a frame off him, you get the warranty as the first owner. I noticed he had a lot of good frames going for much less than retail. Including the fantastic Pinarello that I bought from him at a much reduced rate as it was a 2008 model, but still brand new - never been assembled. I LOVE IT!!

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T-Bone
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Postby T-Bone » 11 Jan 2010, 22:45

There's always the overseas options.....

A quick search shows Wiggle have the Felt F25 for under $2400 shipped, still in stock in size 56cm, not sure if that's big enough or if you need 58. http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Felt_Z25_2009/5360038956/
Does have Sram RED (except cranks and brakes). Not Alloy, but is quality carbon, and cheaper than the Z75.

From what you've listed the Fuji and Cannondale seem the best. Building from scratch will bring a whole lot more options as well.

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weiyun
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Postby weiyun » 11 Jan 2010, 22:47

T-Bone wrote:A quick search shows Wiggle have the Felt F25 for under $2400 shipped, still in stock in size 56cm, not sure if that's big enough or if you need 58.

Don't forget 10% duty on items over $1000.

Strawburger
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Postby Strawburger » 12 Jan 2010, 08:27

FWIW, i rode a Cannondale Cadd9 in France last year up the Alps. It was very comfortable, smooth, responsive. You can throw it round decending corners quite comfortably, rolls nice on the flats and it doesn't feel like you are lugging up an anchor on the climbs. I can't comment on race conditions though.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy one if i was in the market.

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Adrian E
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Postby Adrian E » 12 Jan 2010, 22:31

I'd vote for the Fuji and the CAAD9 as well.

However, I'd recommend not getting two race bikes. Just save up for the race bike you want. I'd look to building a cheap fixie as your commuter/weekday training bike. Keep your race bike free for the weekend training and races. I never ride my race bike to work because it has such a high matienance cost (in time and money). The fixie was bullet-proof and always gave a lively ride.

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Postby Rainbow » 13 Jan 2010, 06:18

I randomly stumbled across this site too which is having a 40% off some bikes. You can have carbon and ultegra! hehe

http://www.bikes.com.au/p/580986/2009-s ... -20sp.html

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 13 Jan 2010, 09:03

Adrian E wrote:I'd vote for the Fuji and the CAAD9 as well.

However, I'd recommend not getting two race bikes. Just save up for the race bike you want. I'd look to building a cheap fixie as your commuter/weekday training bike. Keep your race bike free for the weekend training and races. I never ride my race bike to work because it has such a high matienance cost (in time and money). The fixie was bullet-proof and always gave a lively ride.


This is what I'm currently doing, I'm Commuting and doing most training on the fixie and then I've got the carbon job for racing.

The bike that Jess found looks like a good buy, if the fit is right for you.

If you want something in the interim, I have 4 road bikes, you can borrow one or two

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weiyun
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Postby weiyun » 13 Jan 2010, 09:20

mikesbytes wrote:The bike that Jess found looks like a good buy, if the fit is right for you.

As much as it's a good buy for the CR1, it won't be a bike for the street post or it'd be gone in no time.

othy
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Postby othy » 13 Jan 2010, 09:34

weiyun wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:The bike that Jess found looks like a good buy, if the fit is right for you.

As much as it's a good buy for the CR1, it won't be a bike for the street post or it'd be gone in no time.


The bike in question won't be for the street post either - I have storage at work in the office. If it was for the street post I'd be looking for a second hand beater like mikes beast.

The fixie does seem like an option, and a popular one from what I see on the road, but I'm not quite sure if it is right for me. I do most of my training before & after work, particularly riding up and around Centennial Park. Road racing and criteriums are probably my focus, so doing targeted training on a fixie for these doesn't seem as productive.

It certainly is making me think seriously about it.

shrubb face
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Postby shrubb face » 13 Jan 2010, 12:40

I dont really have an opinion on which bike you should buy, but i am happy to lend you my genisus aluminium road bike if you need something to ride in the mean time.
Last edited by shrubb face on 14 Jan 2010, 06:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Adrian E
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Postby Adrian E » 13 Jan 2010, 18:54

The fixie option is not for exeryone especially if your doing intervals, hill training, mid-week bunch rides. However, back in the day when I was training : ) at centennial, I'd always take the fixie out. I found that I could easily keep pace with the faster bunches around that circuit.

othy
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Postby othy » 15 Jan 2010, 10:01

Well its seems the ACR 1.0 won't be available until the end of March. However, the cheaper model looks interesting and available (and may save me some money for a few little upgrades to it..)

http://www.fujibikes.com/Road/Performan ... x-1-0.aspx

timyone
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Postby timyone » 15 Jan 2010, 11:53

Im not very good at this internet shopping, can you post photos and we tell you what looks the coolest?

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Postby mikesbytes » 15 Jan 2010, 14:23

othy wrote:Well its seems the ACR 1.0 won't be available until the end of March. However, the cheaper model looks interesting and available (and may save me some money for a few little upgrades to it..)

http://www.fujibikes.com/Road/Performan ... x-1-0.aspx


If you are thinking the 2 bike path, this bike would seem to make a great commuting and training option and can be used for racing until the $$$ appear for that race bike.

On another note;
Lindsay has a mid 90's Giant 7 speed with no wheels or handlbars thats looking for a home. It could easily be converted to a fixie. And I've got an old frame which is largely complete except wheels that someone could use for a fixie project.

othy
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Postby othy » 15 Jan 2010, 18:48

Just found another contender while browsing the web.

This might be insane, but I can't believe it is cheaper then the Fuji I was looking at -

Colnago Arte - 105 with FSA cranks, Fulcrum racing 7s - $2499

http://www.frfsports.com/colnago/arte.htm

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Adrian E
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Postby Adrian E » 15 Jan 2010, 19:18

Be careful with compact cranks (50/34T). I've found them very annoying in road races and give you few good quality mid-range gears.

othy
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Postby othy » 16 Jan 2010, 09:10

Adrian E wrote:Be careful with compact cranks (50/34T). I've found them very annoying in road races and give you few good quality mid-range gears.


I had 50/34T on my OCR-1 for quite some time before changing. I will probably upgrade the crankset again. Going to go check out a Colnago Arte 2.0 this afternoon.

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weiyun
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Postby weiyun » 16 Jan 2010, 09:47

Adrian E wrote:Be careful with compact cranks (50/34T). I've found them very annoying in road races and give you few good quality mid-range gears.

There's no difference in the number of mid-range gears it provides, especially when an appropriate cassette is chose eg. 11-25. Based on our previous discussions, the issue for you is one of gear step on changing the chainrings rather than an inadequate mid-range.

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Adrian E
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Postby Adrian E » 16 Jan 2010, 12:41

Yes, thats right. My experience with having ridden both normal and compact cranks is that the mid-range gears on compact cranks are tend to be at the extremities (i.e. 50x18 or 34x13). If you moving around gears this area there is a huge jump between the two chain rings. If you drop the chain onto the small chain ring I tend to have to shift up 4-5 gears on the cassette to get to the next appropriate gear. Of course this happens with normal chainsets but the jump is less dramatic. I find that compacts tends to generate a lot of extra shifting between both the front and rear deraileurs.

othy
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Postby othy » 16 Jan 2010, 14:40

Well the point is moot, because I've just been for a test ride and it had a 53/39T on it.

The bike is fantastic, I've not smiled this much in a while - I think the joy of getting back on a road bike was part of it. Picking it up tomorrow morning!

Bike is very stiff - particularly the front end, quite a racey geometry. First thing I thought when on it was that Heffron was going to be fun to race with it. I was pleased that there was no toe overlap even though it has a straight fork.

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Adrian E
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Postby Adrian E » 17 Jan 2010, 07:39

Great stuff Tim! Enjoy your new bike.

othy
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Postby othy » 17 Jan 2010, 07:52

I'm not quite convinced on the sizing of the one I tried yesterday.

I'm not 100% sure but I think it was what colnago call the 52S (see link for sizes). It had a 12cm stem on it and a saddle with setback. The reach felt correct but the saddle - handlebar drop may cause some issue on longer rides. I'm just not sure if I go up a size if it is going to make everything too big.

http://www.frfsports.com/colnago/arte.htm

Based on the above can anyone offer an opinion on the differences between the 52S and the 54S?

My current bike is the giant OCR-1 in size L (57.5 top tube) and I consider it too big - particularly the reach.

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-AU/bik ... 128/28923/

othy
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Postby othy » 17 Jan 2010, 08:23

Here is my competitive cyclist fit calculator results...

Measurements
-------------------------------------------
Inseam: 91.5
Trunk: 63.6
Forearm: 36.2
Arm: 68
Thigh: 65.7
Lower Leg: 59.7
Sternal Notch: 155
Total Body Height: 185


The Competitive Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 59.3 - 59.8
Seat tube range c-t: 61.1 - 61.6
Top tube length: 55.1 - 55.5
Stem Length: 11.6 - 12.2
BB-Saddle Position: 81.4 - 83.4
Saddle-Handlebar: 55.2 - 55.8
Saddle Setback: 7.5 - 7.9


The Eddy Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 60.5 - 61.0
Seat tube range c-t: 62.3 - 62.8
Top tube length: 55.1 - 55.5
Stem Length: 10.5 - 11.1
BB-Saddle Position: 80.6 - 82.6
Saddle-Handlebar: 56.0 - 56.6
Saddle Setback: 8.7 - 9.1


The French Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 62.2 - 62.7
Seat tube range c-t: 64.0 - 64.5
Top tube length: 56.3 - 56.7
Stem Length: 10.7 - 11.3
BB-Saddle Position: 78.9 - 80.9
Saddle-Handlebar: 57.7 - 58.3
Saddle Setback: 8.2 - 8.6

othy
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Postby othy » 17 Jan 2010, 12:02

Well all my worry was for nothing. Measured up the bike when I got there and turns out it was a 54S (56.5 effective top tube) - even though the sicker on the bike said 55.0 (mislabeled!). Fits me great. Pictures to come.

othy
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Postby othy » 17 Jan 2010, 12:49

Image

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T-Bone
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Postby T-Bone » 17 Jan 2010, 12:54

Nice!!

Do you like the compact bars, or are they goners? and are those painted 105 brakes, or some other brand(wouldn't mind a photo of them)

othy
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Postby othy » 17 Jan 2010, 13:20

I should say thanks to Burwood Cycleworld - particularly Brett who has shown me dozens of bikes before I decided on this one. Love the colour of the bike - goes well with the new uniform.

Do you like the compact bars, or are they goners? and are those painted 105 brakes, or some other brand(wouldn't mind a photo of them)


Undecided on the compact bars - will use them for the moment - I certainly like the shape of them, just could probably use more depth as I can get lower. Still have a few spacers under the stem and the saddle to bar drop is not as far as it looks.

Brakes I think are colnago branded tektros. They seem adequate on the test rides I've taken.

Image

I should say I'm pretty pleased with the component set they've put on the bike. It is not the lightest but looks reliable for a training bike. Full FSA alloy seatpost and cockpit, the saddle looks exactly like a prologo except it has a colnago logo. Fulcrum racings 7s from what I've read are heavy but a good training wheel.

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Michael Chidgey
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Postby Michael Chidgey » 19 Jan 2010, 10:19

bike looks awesome Tim cant wait to see it out on the roads with all your other new gear.

my new frame came in today, weights came in at 1190 for the frame and 380 for the uncut fork.

Image

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Postby othy » 19 Jan 2010, 10:29

That is going to look great built up - are you doing it yourself? It looks slightly different to christians or is it the same frame? Do you know what your build weight will be yet?

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Michael Chidgey
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Postby Michael Chidgey » 19 Jan 2010, 10:37

yeah it is different model to Alex's and Christian's. This one has a curved top tube, 12k finish not 3k and the top tube + down tube have hollows in them.

Yeah i will be building it up myself and am looking to get it around the 7.5/8kg mark. It will be a little bit heavier for the moment because it is a 59cm frame and i'm still deciding on what wheels to get for it. Trying to convince myself that i need a set of Dura Ace 7850 C-50's for it.

christian
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Postby christian » 19 Jan 2010, 10:43

One thing to be careful about with full carbon bikes is not doing the bolts up too tight. I'd recommend a torque wrench, you can borrow mine if you want when you are ready to build. I'd also recommend using an anti seize grease on the bottom bracket cups.
Last edited by christian on 19 Jan 2010, 10:52, edited 1 time in total.

othy
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Postby othy » 19 Jan 2010, 10:49

Have your parts come yet...mine are still listed as 'In progress'

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christian
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Postby christian » 19 Jan 2010, 10:54

Mine says the same, there may be something wrong with the tracking system or maybe the plane fell out of the sky.

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timyone
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Postby timyone » 19 Jan 2010, 11:41

nice!!! both of them!

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Michael Chidgey
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Postby Michael Chidgey » 19 Jan 2010, 12:24

christian wrote:Mine says the same, there may be something wrong with the tracking system or maybe the plane fell out of the sky.

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same with mine

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Trouty
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Postby Trouty » 19 Jan 2010, 16:28

Michael Chidgey wrote:yeah it is different model to Alex's and Christian's. This one has a curved top tube, 12k finish not 3k and the top tube + down tube have hollows in them.

Yeah i will be building it up myself and am looking to get it around the 7.5/8kg mark. It will be a little bit heavier for the moment because it is a 59cm frame and i'm still deciding on what wheels to get for it. Trying to convince myself that i need a set of Dura Ace 7850 C-50's for it.


Hey Othy....bike looks Awesome. Be great to see you out on the road again.

Chidgey....yes...I think you need Dura Ace 7850's. What the hell. You work hard buy what you want I say!!!! No need for convincing.

I also have a torque wrench if you need to borrow it.

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Michael Chidgey
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Postby Michael Chidgey » 20 Jan 2010, 09:25

Trouty wrote:
I also have a torque wrench if you need to borrow it.


thanks Christian and Jo i will take one of you up on the offer when i am at that stage of building.

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Postby Manny » 21 Jan 2010, 08:20

othy wrote:Image


Nice bike. Can I ask how much it set you back?

othy
Posts: 477
Joined: 12 Dec 2007, 10:46
Location: Summer Hill

Postby othy » 21 Jan 2010, 08:41

Manny wrote:Nice bike. Can I ask how much it set you back?


I'd rather not say online, but I purchased it from Burwood Cycleworld who are great supporters of the club.


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