Road rage on Botany Bay today! :-(

Road cycling & upcoming rides
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simon.sharwood
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Postby simon.sharwood » 08 May 2008, 10:14

http://www.smh.com.au/news/beijing2008/ ... 12608.html
Bad news - car stopped in front of a pack of 50 - on purpose - and caused quite a bingle.

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FAswad
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Postby FAswad » 08 May 2008, 11:12

Quite unfortunate!!!

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fenn_paddler
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Postby fenn_paddler » 08 May 2008, 11:55

And as typically happens, the a??holes come out of the woodwork to post their comments: http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/comments/0,22058,23664189-5001021,00.html

I really, really, despise sydney's intolerance at times. They were riding at 6:30am (not peak hour) for gods sake.

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Stretch
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Postby Stretch » 08 May 2008, 14:36

More on this at the Transitions forum (Triathlon)

http://forums.transitions.org.au/index. ... 28926&st=0

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 08 May 2008, 15:00

Lucky no one was killed, could of fallen under a car or what ever.

They are going to catch this guy for sure.

It's getting to the point where you run camera's on your bike and submit footage to the police.

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williamd
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Postby williamd » 08 May 2008, 17:22

The cyclist should commence class proceedings against the driver in court to recover damage to their bikes, medical expenses, loss of income.pain and suffering, nervous shock, to name a few. The driver if found guilty will have to pay a large amount in compensation. I heard that there could be more than $30,000 in damage to bicycles alone.

A message needs to be sent out to drivers that road rage of this sort will result in legal proceedings with heavy penalities.

timyone
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Postby timyone » 08 May 2008, 20:09

lol! i was amazed no one posted in the thread in general that i made!
man i should read this section more often!!

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geoff m
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Postby geoff m » 08 May 2008, 22:52

Dear all,

Reading the Telegraph forum is a real eye opener. Some things we cannot control and some morons in cars just won't be changed until society changes (like Copenhagen). But there is one thing we can all do to make a real difference to the majority of misguided motorists who can be influenced and won over.

There is no excuse to go through a red light, other than when travelling as a large group where the light changes mid-way, or if the sensor is not triggered by the bike and due to lack of cars (latter is covered in Australian Road Rules as legal).

We must be Ghandi like and lead by example to build a healthy respect for following the rules, and in return expect the other road users to respect the same laws as well. The following comment in the Tele was one of about 40 of the same type of view. These motorists can be influenced over. It starts with our own behaviours.......

Many times while living in Sydney I'd wait and wait and wait until I could safely and legally go around a cyclist in the other lane. Then when you stop at a red light they go up on the footpath, past you, then back on the road in front of you at the intersection and you are stuck behind them again - unless they decide to ride through the red light. They can cry that they have as much right as a car to use the road but they should also follow the road rules too.
Posted by: Matt of Newcastle 12:34pm today
Comment 142 of 187

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Stuart
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Postby Stuart » 09 May 2008, 09:16

Make sure you get along to the Telegraph's web site and vote in their on-line poll "Are cyclists a problem on Sydney roads?" Typically the Tele thinks it's the cyclists fault, not the drivers (as pointed out by Geoff, so do most of their readers which is not surprising given the demographic that reads the Tele). Surely the question should be - "Are Sydney's car drivers too aggressive and dangerous in their driving and attitude towards cyclists".

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/?id=#vote-now-form

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weiyun
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Postby weiyun » 09 May 2008, 09:31

Why bother voting on that trash tabloid paper? Haven't read that paper for years.

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 09 May 2008, 09:34

The problem with a survey like this is that it generally reflects the numbers in each camp.

"Would you participate in gay sex?" would get a result like 93% no 7% yes.

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Adrian E
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Postby Adrian E » 09 May 2008, 09:35

The fact that they would even bother asking that question is an insult to the intelligence or lack of intelligence in their readership.

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weiyun
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Postby weiyun » 09 May 2008, 09:42

mikesbytes wrote:The problem with a survey like this is that it generally reflects the numbers in each camp.

"Would you participate in gay sex?" would get a result like 93% no 7% yes.

You mean a reflection of the attitude of their readership? Which is a skewed subset of the whole population. So often meaningless in the scheme of things.

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 09 May 2008, 09:43

weiyun wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:The problem with a survey like this is that it generally reflects the numbers in each camp.

"Would you participate in gay sex?" would get a result like 93% no 7% yes.

You mean a reflection of the attitude of their readership? Which is a skewed subset of the whole population. So often meaningless in the scheme of things.


A bit too much thinking there Weiyun, but yes.

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Stuart
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Postby Stuart » 09 May 2008, 09:56

I think that the more "no" votes the better as it dilutes their argument somewhat - you don't have to read the paper - just get on there and vote no.

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fenn_paddler
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Postby fenn_paddler » 09 May 2008, 10:01

geoff m wrote:Dear all,

Reading the Telegraph forum is a real eye opener. Some things we cannot control and some morons in cars just won't be changed until society changes (like Copenhagen). But there is one thing we can all do to make a real difference to the majority of misguided motorists who can be influenced and won over.

There is no excuse to go through a red light, other than when travelling as a large group where the light changes mid-way, or if the sensor is not triggered by the bike and due to lack of cars (latter is covered in Australian Road Rules as legal).

We must be Ghandi like and lead by example to build a healthy respect for following the rules, and in return expect the other road users to respect the same laws as well. The following comment in the Tele was one of about 40 of the same type of view. These motorists can be influenced over. It starts with our own behaviours.......

Many times while living in Sydney I'd wait and wait and wait until I could safely and legally go around a cyclist in the other lane. Then when you stop at a red light they go up on the footpath, past you, then back on the road in front of you at the intersection and you are stuck behind them again - unless they decide to ride through the red light. They can cry that they have as much right as a car to use the road but they should also follow the road rules too.
Posted by: Matt of Newcastle 12:34pm today
Comment 142 of 187


I agree about the red lights. However even if we religously followed all road rules, resentful drivers would still find something to bitch and moan about. Likely the fact we don't pay rego for our bikes (though many of us run two cars and pay that way anyhow, but don't let the facts get in the way of an argument!).

This is the Sydney we live in. Someone in another forum described the city as a cross between LA and the Middle East. Maybe that's as good a description as any. This is a city where they have to threaten jail for rock throwers, where planes flying into the city are regularly attacked by laser beams, and where cyclists involved in a road rage incident are jeered by passing motorists. Lovely.

Anyway it's good to read all the negative comments so you get an idea what people think so you're forearmed the next time you go out for a bunch ride.

They had listener call-in on 2ws this morning on the incident, and every one was unsympathetic towards the bike riders. The sole dissenting voice was Amanda Keller, one of the commentators. Whilst it would be nice to blame the negative comments on tabloid press and their readers, I think this incident has tapped a raw nerve amongst drivers of all demographics - maybe the high cost of petrol and increasing congestion is bringing the whole car vs. bike thing to boiling point.

Cheers,
Alan W

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weiyun
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Postby weiyun » 09 May 2008, 10:19

Here's an idea... How about those 50 riders all drive out for their training "ride" in a car bunch and see which is better for general traffic?

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 09 May 2008, 10:42

It defeats me how someone can commit assault and then members of the general public blame the people being assaulted.

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williamd
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Postby williamd » 09 May 2008, 16:54

Mike said :It defeats me how someone can commit assault and then members of the general public blame the people being assaulted.

Reply: When the assaulter assaults the assaultee in a situation where the assaulter is one of a class of persons in the majority( car drivers) then the assaulter has the general public (majority car drivers) on his side.

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 09 May 2008, 20:19

Bumped into (young) Nick tonight riding with his partner. He was one of the riders on the ride. He has bruised knees and some ligament damage.

He confirmed that the driver jumped on his brakes in front of them.

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Stuart
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Postby Stuart » 28 Jan 2009, 11:54

The guy has his day in court, representing himself

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/pac ... 95327.html

Frank.S87
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Postby Frank.S87 » 28 Jan 2009, 18:37

clearly he hasn't done too much research or prepared for court


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geoff m
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Postby geoff m » 28 Jan 2009, 22:08

Franksun87 wrote:clearly he hasn't done too much research or prepared for court


Not very smart chap either.

If he had said in cross examination, "Yeah, these guys were cycling beside me peacefully and legally, and as I was passing them by in the middle lane, my exhaust backfired and I panicked and pulled over left as I was starting to break down, and lost speed, and they (at an unsafe distance) then hit the back of me", he might have a 20% chance of convincing the judge.

But he has accused the cyclists of being illegally in the left lane, rather than in the breakdown lane "where they belong", which then supports the theory he was enraged, and forced his car to move over and slow down to purposely injure the cyclists, which supports witness accounts of what allegedly happened.

His defence is not looking good.

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Stuart
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Postby Stuart » 29 Jan 2009, 03:30

The magistrate has believed his version of events, giving him "the benefit of the doubt" against all the cyclist witnesses. It is clear that in Sydney there is open season on cyclists approved by the courts. Unbelievable - we must mobilise around this outrage. We must complain to the DPP and local members about the manifest inadequacy of the sentence. Write today and BE ANGRY.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/dri ... 32178.html

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 29 Jan 2009, 08:57


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Adrian E
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Postby Adrian E » 29 Jan 2009, 09:09

I've written to a number of members of parliament today including the Premier, Minister for Roads, Minister for Education, Attorney General and Minister for Justice, Member for Sydney (Clover) and Lee Rhiannon Greens senator.

I think the $1200 fine is a joke. The driver has been found guilty, but no damages (i.e. $40,000) have been awarded. No demerit points or loss of license. What kind of message does that send to the public.

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Postby Tom Rayner » 29 Jan 2009, 17:36

I agree, it's bizarre - particularly the no loss of license.

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Postby insomniac » 29 Jan 2009, 18:06

Adrian E wrote:I think the $1200 fine is a joke. The driver has been found guilty, but no damages (i.e. $40,000) have been awarded. No demerit points or loss of license. What kind of message does that send to the public.


I heard the cyclists will now pursue a civil claim against the driver which, if successful, will cost the driver a lot more than the $1200 fine. I 'm not sure the court, in this particular matter, had juristiction to award damages, purely determine if the driver was guilty of the charges against him (prob. purely a motoring offence). Given the guilty verdict, the cyclists now have a very strong chance of succesfully suing the driver, but that's done in a seperate court case.

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weiyun
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Postby weiyun » 29 Jan 2009, 19:29

insomniac wrote:I heard the cyclists will now pursue a civil claim against the driver...

Good to hear.


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