Dulwich Hill Bicycle Club

Event: 2015 Dulwich Hill Bicycle Club Individual Time Trail Championship (DHBC ITT Champs)
Date: Sunday September 6th 2015, leave home around 6.30am
Venue: ATTA Calga
Course: We will be using the 25k Calga
Eligibility: All DHBC members who have a Silver ride-it license or a Gold race license.
-----------> IE you don't need a race license to participate in this event.
Hosts: Marc and Mike
Categories (Marc and Mike will provide more details later);
1. Everyone ATTA Handicap - note: The winner will receive the DHBC ITT perpetual trophy
2. Vintage subcategory - those with vintage bikes
3. Old Salts subcategory - Those who have ridden ATTA Calga 25k before

Could you please put you name below and state if you need a lift, or have own transport and if you can provide a lift;
===================================================
Michael Clement (own transport, can provide lift to one)

Marc R - probably vintage category

Yes yes yes

Maybe both categories...
Marc, whats the limit in hardware that will make a bike vintage?

We'll do a rolling list and include your transport info, so we can help out those who need it
Don't worry too much about the categories at this point, that will sort itself
===================================================
Michael C (own transport, can provide lift to one)
Marc R (---transport?----)
Jonathan W (---transport?---)

We'll do a rolling list and include your transport info, so we can help out those who need it
Don't worry too much about the categories at this point, that will sort itself
===================================================
Michael C (own transport, can provide lift to one)
Marc R (---transport?----)
Jonathan W (---transport?---)
Simon Be (own transport)

We'll do a rolling list and include your transport info, so we can help out those who need it
Don't worry too much about the categories at this point, that will sort itself
===================================================
Michael C (own transport, can provide lift to one)
Marc R (---transport?----)
Jonathan W (---transport?---)
Simon Be (own transport)
Lindsay (own transport)

See below.

We'll do a rolling list and include your transport info, so we can help out those who need it
Don't worry too much about the categories at this point, that will sort itself
===================================================
Michael C (own transport, can provide lift to one)
Marc R (---transport?----)
Jonathan W (---transport?---)
Simon Be (own transport)
Lindsay (own transport)
Roger W (own transport)

You do realise it's father's day that day

You do realise it's father's day that day

I'm a dad and I'm racing

This race is probably the best fathers day gift ever.

AMENDED 18/8.
There will be 3 categories:
1. Everyone ATTA Handicap - note: The winner will receive the DHBC ITT perpetual trophy
2. Vintage subcategory - those with vintage bikes
3. Old Salts subcategory - Those who have ridden ATTA Calga 25k before

--------------------------------------------
Please note:
ALL VINTAGE BIKE BASED HANDICAPS HAVE BEEN REMOVED FOR THE TIME BEING.
HANDICAPS WILL BE DERIVED JOINTLY BASED ON INDIVIDUAL RIDER ABILITY AND BIKE.

General Rule for Vintage bike participants only:

1. All vintage bicycle entries should be pre-1997.
2. Equipment used (ie. groupset, wheels, gearing & other miscellaneous tech) should be pre-1997 and approximately period correct, however minor and/or sympathetic variations are acceptable.
3. Groupsets and gearing should comply with the following dates:
a. 1900-1950 - 1 to 3 speed gearing only
b. 1950-1965 - 3 to 10 speed gearing only
c. 1965-1990 - 10 to 16 speed gearing only
d. 1990-1997 - 16 to 18 speed gearing only
4. Judges reserve the right to adjust the level of handicap on the day.

We'll do a rolling list and include your transport info, so we can help out those who need it
Don't worry too much about the categories at this point, that will sort itself
===================================================
Michael C (own transport, can provide lift to one)
Marc R (---transport?----)
Jonathan W (---transport?---)
Simon Be (own transport)
Lindsay (own transport)
Roger W (own transport)
Toff (own transport)

We'll do a rolling list and include your transport info, so we can help out those who need it
Don't worry too much about the categories at this point, that will sort itself
===================================================
Michael C (own transport, can provide lift to one)
Marc R (---transport?----)
Jonathan W (---transport?---)
Simon Be (own transport)
Lindsay (own transport)
Roger W (own transport)
Toff (own transport)
John J (own transport)

Just sorting out a pre-1950 bike. Will I be allowed to start with only 1 brake?

John, I'll ask about the brake

Michael C (own transport, can provide lift to one)
Marc R (---transport?----)
Jonathan W (---transport?---)
Simon Be (own transport)
Lindsay (own transport)
Roger W (own transport)
Toff (own transport)
John J (own transport)
Peter B (own transport)

Just sorting out a pre-1950 bike. Will I be allowed to start with only 1 brake?
Is there a start time for our block?

Just sorting out a pre-1950 bike. Will I be allowed to start with only 1 brake?

Shouldn't the question be "Will I be able to stop?"

Shouldn't the question be "Will I be able to stop?"

Who needs brakes in a time trial?

We'll do a rolling list and include your transport info, so we can help out those who need it
Don't worry too much about the categories at this point, that will sort itself
===================================================

Michael C (own transport, can provide lift to one)
Marc R (---transport?----)
Jonathan W (---transport?---)
Simon Be (own transport)
Lindsay (own transport)
Roger W (own transport)
Toff (own transport)
John J (own transport)
Peter B (own transport)
Ron Webster (...transport?...)

i would like to this but i have never done and individual time trial and i dont a vintage bike even that i am a bit vintage

It's all inclusive Neil. Doesn't matter if it's your first, your 100th , whether you have a TT bike, vintage bike or road bike

We'll do a rolling list and include your transport info, so we can help out those who need it
Don't worry too much about the categories at this point, that will sort itself
===================================================

Michael C (own transport, can provide lift to one)
Marc R (---transport?----)
Jonathan W (---transport?---)
Simon Be (own transport)
Lindsay (own transport)
Roger W (own transport)
Toff (own transport)
John J (own transport)
Peter B (own transport)
Ron Webster (...transport?...)
Neil M ( own transport ) with room for 1

i would like to this but i have never done and individual time trial and i dont a vintage bike even that i am a bit vintage

No need for a vintage bike. You can use whatever bike you have, I won't be using a vintage bike. And its a great opportunity to experience your first ITT.

I'm in but we're is the start and what time do we need to be there

Location is here http://www.atta.asn.au/maps/Course_Maps.html#calga

With the Calga ITT once you arrive you register for a time slot, which will depend on how many registered before you. The plan is for all of us to depart home around 6.30am so we arrive at Calga at similar times

Michael C (own transport, can provide lift to one)
Marc R (---transport?----)
Jonathan W (---transport?---)
Simon Be (own transport)
Lindsay (own transport)
Roger W (own transport)
Toff (own transport)
John J (own transport)
Peter B (own transport)
Ron Webster (...transport?...)
Neil M ( own transport ) with room for 1
Peter + Francis T (own transport)

Questions:
1. entry fee?
2. What sort of license is needed as http://www.atta.asn.au/program.html#nswprog says ATTA-NSW is affiliated with Cycling-NSW
3. Any provision for juniors?

Its great for Juniors, would love to see some out there

I've asked Crafty to post on entry and licensing

Im looking forward to the TT .I have my own transport but taking more than 1 bike is a problem. Would have room for a non riding passenger if needed.[Ron Webster)

We'll do a rolling list and include your transport info, so we can help out those who need it
Don't worry too much about the categories at this point, that will sort itself
===================================================

Michael C (own transport, can provide lift to one)
Marc R (---transport?----)
Jonathan W (---transport?---)
Simon Be (own transport)
Lindsay (own transport)
Roger W (own transport)
Toff (own transport)
John J (own transport)
Peter B (own transport)
Ron Webster (...transport?...)
Neil M ( own transport ) with room for 1
Peter + Francis T (own transport)
John Hatt (Snoozing in the car as Neil M Drives / Has a spare bike rack if needed)

We'll do a rolling list and include your transport info, so we can help out those who need it
Don't worry too much about the categories at this point, that will sort itself
===================================================

Michael C (own transport, can provide lift to one)
Marc R (---transport?----)
Jonathan W (---transport?---)
Simon Be (own transport)
Lindsay (own transport)
Roger W (own transport)
Toff (own transport)
John J (own transport)
Peter B (own transport)
Ron Webster (...transport?...)
Neil M ( own transport ) with room for 1
Peter + Francis T (own transport)
John Hatt (Snoozing in the car as Neil M Drives / Has a spare bike rack if needed)
Alex C (own transport)

My apologies for my late posting, Michael C had emailed me when I was at Cootamundra re; confirming ATTA entry fee prices.

Being, what I consider a friend of DHBC, I have been in contact and negotiation with Chris (ATTA-NSW) to try and broker a deal for DHBC.
Fees for ATTA-NSW are $25 for CA members.
I noted to Chris that on the rolling list you had 14 riders (totalling $350 in unconfirmed entry) My proposal was that if DHBC pre-paid $300 by Wednesday 2nd Sept that ATTA-NSW would accept unlimited riders from DHBC.

Proposal:
• DHBC (or organiser) pay $300 to ATTA-NSW by Wednesday 2nd Sept
• DHBC riders present licences at sign on and will sign on free of charge
• DHBC (or organiser) will be responsible for any transaction between individual riders and DHBC (or organiser) to recoup said $300
• ATTA-NSW will conduct an event in any climate (rain hail shine) this event will not be postponed or cancelled.

ATTA NSW
BSB 082330
A/C 857502675

Guys I think this deal is beyond cool, so I hope you take advantage of it. it is not restricted to vintage bike riders only DHBC (CA) licence holders.
We can use this page to debate /confirm or discard my offer

Cheers Paul

That is excellent Paul - thanks.

Guys/Gals, we need a couple more riders to make this work. Can those who haven't committed please put their names in the list. Have we got any friends to invite? There's some that can give a lift, so no transport worries

Mike,
What time do we need to be at the start?
Peter

I'm in.

CW

Mike,
What time do we need to be at the start?
Peter

If we all depart home at 6.30 we will arrive around the same time, then they will allocate us similar timeslot. First rider is 8am and last rider is 10am. I'm guessing we will be allocated 9, it will depend on how many riders turn up before us

We'll do a rolling list and include your transport info, so we can help out those who need it
Don't worry too much about the categories at this point, that will sort itself
===================================================

Michael C (own transport, can provide lift to one)
Marc R (---transport?----)
Jonathan W (---transport?---)
Simon Be (own transport)
Lindsay (own transport)
Roger W (own transport)
Toff (own transport)
John J (own transport)
Peter B (own transport)
Ron Webster (...transport?...)
Neil M ( own transport ) with room for 1
Peter + Francis T (own transport)
John Hatt (Snoozing in the car as Neil M Drives / Has a spare bike rack if needed)
Alex C (own transport)
Paul A (own transport)

We'll do a rolling list and include your transport info, so we can help out those who need it
Don't worry too much about the categories at this point, that will sort itself
===================================================

Michael C (own transport, can provide lift to one)
Marc R (---transport?----)
Jonathan W (---transport?---)
Simon Be (own transport)
Lindsay (own transport)
Roger W (own transport)
Toff (own transport)
John J (own transport)
Peter B (own transport)
Ron Webster (...transport?...)
Neil M ( own transport ) with room for 1
Peter + Francis T (own transport)
John Hatt (Snoozing in the car as Neil M Drives / Has a spare bike rack if needed)
Alex C (own transport)
Paul A (own transport)
Craig W (---transport?---)

The Club has prepaid the entry fee.

This means that you get a discount;
Adults - $20
Juniors - $10

It also means your committed to pay

Found the Post. Can't see the START TIME. Please Advise.

You are given your start time when you register Ron. If we all leave at similar times from sydney (6:30am) we should arrive and register at similar times (7:30am).

The trophy has arrived

Hi all, I won't be there . Sorry, other family commitments have to take priority.

Regards
Roger

Its not too late if you want to enter

I'm thinking of giving this a go. Can you just turn up on the morning and pay the fees then?

Yeh sure Matt. Let them know you are DHBC as the club has bulk paid the entry. Then you need to give Marc or me $20

See you tomorrow

See everyone in the morning

Shoot, should have asked this question earlier.

What's the plan for wet weather? Rule#5?

Shoot, should have asked this question earlier.

What's the plan for wet weather? Rule#5?

It's on regardless of the weather, its never cancelled

The weather looks OK this morning, looks like we are on a winner. See you there

Thanks Mike and Mark for organizing the championship. It was a great morning and a lot of fun.
Looking forward to next year,
Peter B

Thanks for those involved with organising. A great event and thankfully the rain stayed away!

Before I put up the Championship results, here's the scratch times;
36:37 Alex Chubb
38:11 Simon Berry
38:51 Craig Weller
39:59 James Bernard
42:15 Paul Armishaw
44:11 John Hatt
45:13 Marc Rerceretman
48:23 Peter Bownes
48:53 Chris Harris
49:05 Neil Moxham
50:59 Jonathon Wong
52:42 Lindsay Munks
54:13 Peter Teow
56:13 Francis Teow
58:01 Ron Webster
58:06 John Johnson
DNF Michael Clement

Edit: I've added James

James Bernard?

They just put up the results, James has been put down as riding for Sydney Uni and hence why he didn't end up on the DHBC printout. I've edited the results to include him

http://www.atta.asn.au/db/005.php?page= ... id=nsw9_15

Congratulations Francis Teow!
DHBC Junior ITT Champion?

And the championship results are......

+3.45 Craig Weller
+2.11 Alex Chubb
+1.26 Simon Berry
-0.03 Paul Armishaw
-1.11 James Benard
-3.01 Marc Rercretman
- 5.23 John Hatt
-6.35 Peter Bownes
-6.53 Neil Moxham
-8.05 Chris Harris
-10.06 LIndsay Munks
-10.19 Ron Webster
-12.11 Jonathan Wong
- 13.14 Francis Teow
-13.37 Peter Teow
-15.30 John Johnson
DNF Michael Clement

Please congratulate Craig - 2015 DHBC ITT champion

Is that the age altered times/STD from ATTA ?
There is a ZIP file that considers Age and Gender here : http://www.atta.asn.au/results/standards.html
Although it is from 2013 so maybe riders have been getting faster and/or TT bikes/equipment have become more aero in the last 2 years.

Yes that's the calc its based on. I don't know how it works but it does. I doubt that its affected much by the steady but small improvements over the years.

I was talking to Neil Arnold, who is the ex president of NSCC and he said that NSCC used the same method as us to do their ITT championship.

hey mike great event really enjoyed prob should not have done the 140 the day before but hey, once again thanx heaps for doing it all

Hi to explain the age standard time
We say a good time for an Elite male rider (age 18-35) is 38:48
as you pass this age 35+ we estimate a 12 second loss per year or every 5 years 1 min
when a rider hits 60 the 12seconds per year is increased to 17seconds per year
And 70+ 23 seconds per year.
A similar formula is applied to women and likewise as per year below 18
So it is way of comparing all riders to a standard of age and gender

The graph looks like this



in the last 20 year we have adjusted (tightened) the figures 3 times. Reasons times are getting quicker but more importantly old people are getting quicker. With modern medics and lifestyle changes the decline of sporting performance with age is not as dramatic as it once was. (opinion only)
the last tightening was done 6 years ago I am planning on tightening it up again in 2016.
love to hear your thoughts

Thanks for running the event and thanks for picking me up on circuit Paul, it was a long walk bare foot on a wet road

<snip>
We say a good time for an Elite male rider (age 18-35) is 38:48
<snip>
With modern medics
<snip>

Hey 38:48 is exactly my PB, set last year

Rumors that I have an exemption from my doctor are completely untrue

Anyway jokes aside, thanks for the info Paul, that's great.

In regards to the feedback, are we comparing apples with apples? There's a lot more of a generalist elite age cyclists turning up, but in with the masters it tends to be the specialists, for example Neil Arnold, who seems to turn up ever month. If you look at the DHBC results, you can see that there was a wide variety of ability in those who don't normally turn up

We say a good time for an Elite male rider (age 18-35) is 38:48

Thanks for the details of the STANDARD times (although really - shouldn't these be more accurately called 'Elite' times? )
Anyway It's pretty fair to normalise the results across ages/gender.


The Calga ITT is a fair hike away from Marrickville for a club event, which based on the ATTA handicaps, to be in the running for the coveted shiny trophy, one really needs to be able to post a time faster than the STANDARD times.
The challenge is how is the Club going to get more of the Fasties bunch to make the trip next year.

I didn't think it was to far to travel, it was a easy drive there

At a time trial your main opposition is yourself.
The bar is set by your expectations
And the time you want to beat is your own.

There may not be a "coveted shiny trophy" if you succeed but, there sure will be a heap of satisfaction.

At a time trial your main opposition is yourself.
The bar is set by your expectations
And the time you want to beat is your own.

There may not be a "coveted shiny trophy" if you succeed but, there sure will be a heap of satisfaction.

All true.
In this sense I was satisfied with my average 170bpm effort with 63% of the time in my z5 heart rate band

Average 170bpm is pretty dam good

The challenge is how is the Club going to get more of the Fasties bunch to make the trip next year.

Maybe they can ride up with Peter?

Artson wrote:
At a time trial your main opposition is yourself
The bar is set by your expectations
And the time you want to beat is your own.

I agree, which is what makes ITTing fun.
In a road race, you can get handicapped into too strong a bunch, and it's all over in five minutes. (happened to me in Cootamundra)
Or you work your guts out for two hours, then get blown away in the sprint. (West Head).
But in an ITT, it's all in your control.
So on Sunday, we met our opponent, and he is us.

Paul

I don't want to be too controversial, but I would say give the actual cup to Alec Chubb, and create another cup for the equaled out results. (though I would like to point out great times to both Simon Berry and Craig Weller)

FINAL RESULTS OF THE DHBC INDIVIDUAL TIME TRIAL CHAMPIONSHIPS 2015


2015 DHBC ITT champion
Craig Weller 40m46s Actual /38m51s on the day (1m55s faster Closest to actual handicap)

ITT Best performce by handicap
John Hatt 51m00s Estimated /44m11s on the day (5m49s faster than handicap)

ITT Vintage bicycle champion
Christopher Harris 51m00s Estimated /48m53s on the day (2m03s faster than handicap)

The insane award (for riding to the venue from Marrickville and riding back after the race)
Peter Bownes 44m00s Estimated /48m23s on the day 4m23s slower

ITT Lantern Rouge award
Jonathan Wong 42m05s Actual /50m59s on the day (8m54s slower than handicap)

ITT Junior champion
Francis Teow 60m00s Estimated /56m13s on the day (3m47s faster than handicap)

ITT Oldest rider
Ron Webster 60m00s Estimated /58m01s on the day 1m59s faster

ITT Why can't you do better award - Closest to estimated handicap + closest overall
Alex Chubb 36m00s Estimated /36m37s on the day (0m37s slower than handicap)

Will this be held in 2016?

Will this be held in 2016?

We are proposing August 7th

keen as mustard..

Hi frank, Its set for August. Have started a new thread for here

http://www.dhbc.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5118

So pop a post in that thread and stay tuned

Cheers Mike