Wheels

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 26 Jul 2011, 23:09

As noted in the flat tyre thread, my fixie front rim has blown. Current thinking is to buy some new wheels for the track bike and migrate the existing Mavic CX20's to the fixie.

I'm estimating that the CX20's will last about 2 years on the fixie. So I'm also thinking that one option for the track bike is to buy track wheels with the view point that will be migrated to the fixie in another 2 years and do another upgrade then.

So I'm looking at something that's better than CX20 but also suitable to be downgraded to the fixie in 2013, possibly something with decent hubs so when they die in 2015, I'll rebuild them rather than chuck them like I am with the Deep V's and CX20's

Does that sound like those alloy Campag's that some of you guys have? Which model is that? Where is the best price?

Open to other strategies and suggestions

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 28 Jul 2011, 09:32

Seems to be that I'm looking at 2 price ranges;

1. Bugger all. Wheels that are barely better than my current ones and I can take my existing tyres to them, making them dirt cheap
http://www.probikekit.com/au/wheels/track-and-single-speed-wheels/token-track-wheelset.html

or

2. A price jump. Not only are the wheels more expensive, but once you go up the carbon path, you might as well run singles, so add $200 or so. These ones are probably bottom end for this kinda wheel
http://www.probikekit.com/au/wheels/track-and-single-speed-wheels/fast-forward-f5t-track-wheelset.html

krankee1
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Postby krankee1 » 28 Jul 2011, 14:18

Gipiemme 716, full disclosure I sell them. for data see campag shamal. Didn't want to spam but we are trying hard to provide this stuff locally and we do sponsor events with profits as well.

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Simon Llewellyn
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Postby Simon Llewellyn » 28 Jul 2011, 14:28

krankee1 wrote:Gipiemme 716, full disclosure I sell them. for data see campag shamal. Didn't want to spam but we are trying hard to provide this stuff locally and we do sponsor events with profits as well.


Maybe I should know but what shop is that?

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Postby krankee1 » 28 Jul 2011, 15:25


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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 28 Jul 2011, 15:35


orphic
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Postby orphic » 28 Jul 2011, 15:48

Those are road wheels Mike, I think he was talking about these - http://www.kirraweecycles.com.au/shop/v ... oductid=26

I do agree that supporting the local industry instead of Probikekit might be nice

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Postby krankee1 » 28 Jul 2011, 16:12

I have some data on the wheels if you go to the tech button. The rims are the old 2000 model shamals, with cx rays or DT aerolites, they have less drag than zipp 808's at 0-3 degress of yaw.But round spokes keep the price down,

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Postby mikesbytes » 28 Jul 2011, 20:27

That's what happens when your trying to surf the net while the boss is watching.

Preference is to buy local. The PBK links were just some random samples.

Ah I see, there's a range of options/prices. Where's the tech button krankee1 ?
Last edited by mikesbytes on 29 Jul 2011, 08:42, edited 1 time in total.

timyone
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Postby timyone » 29 Jul 2011, 00:36

You work for kirawee? Cool I personally for some reason am too lazy to use the net and spend just about all money in shops or ozzy importers

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Postby krankee1 » 31 Jul 2011, 11:16

I try to base equipment decisions on Data rather than marketing, the tech button is on the frontpage left.

Aimee
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Postby Aimee » 03 Aug 2011, 05:56

We have some Easton ec 30 track wheels at work, want me to see what price I can get them for you for?

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Postby mikesbytes » 03 Aug 2011, 07:43

Hi Aimee, I have Easton road wheels, but I haven't heard of Easton track wheels. What hubs do they have?

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Postby Aimee » 09 Aug 2011, 15:26

Easton TK0 hubs are what is on them

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Postby mikesbytes » 09 Aug 2011, 15:32

Aimee wrote:Easton TK0 hubs are what is on them


Thanks Amiee, is this them?

Image

rhys
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Postby rhys » 11 Aug 2011, 16:11

Wow, I would be interested in those as well. Don't mean to hi-jack your thread Mike, but I'm thinking of getting some better wheels and I was thinking Campag Pistas would be a good option.
Those in the club who race them, what do you think? Where did you get them and how much were they?
Thanks

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NOOG
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Postby NOOG » 11 Aug 2011, 19:24

I've been racing pistas for the last year and a half and love them...they won me RAW Div. 2 last year up against many a carbon adversary. Best wheels for under $800. That being said, I just bought a TWE rear wheel for training and it rolls beautifully...I would recommend going down to Alice street, Newtown to talk to Greg about what he can do for you before you lay out any cash online.

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Postby Toff » 12 Aug 2011, 00:04

Pretty sure Bundy still has some Token track wheels from his old shop too. Worth a call.

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Postby krankee1 » 12 Aug 2011, 09:40

http://www.biketechreview.com/reviews/w ... nd-ratings.
This review has some independent data. Remember for track use Aero column is the big deal. Pista's rate significantly worse than Shamals. The Tubular 716 is the SAME as the shamal. They are also UCI approved.

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Postby christian » 12 Aug 2011, 09:47

That table is only from aerodynamics tests. The other important factor for the track is wheel stiffness. You can have the most aerodynamic wheel around but if it isn't very stiff then there is a big lose in getting the power from your legs to the ground. You need to consider both these factors if you are picking a wheel to race with.

Here is a short table, its a bit old though
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/wheel/data.htm

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Postby timyone » 12 Aug 2011, 09:58

My pistas are heaps good, especially for the price (though I would seriously consider having a talk to Bundy... as I have done all of my whell purchasing through him since the Pistas). Wow thanks for the info Krankee, I would love a pair of Shimals :D they look heaps good :D

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Postby krankee1 » 12 Aug 2011, 10:07

http://www.zipp.com/_media/pdfs/technol ... ecount.pdf
The intent of the wheel design was to provide the fastest alloy wheel for equipment restricted riders, Taylah Jennings, Travis Smedley, Zac Dellah, Corntney Field have all won championships on them and or set Aus records. The other aim was a good value club race wheelset so that you dont have to risk your carbon disc(or tyres) in dodgy races. The twenty spoke format makes them really stiff and durable. I repair carbon as well and we had a cracked zipp 404 in yesterday where a self professed expert had laced a 24 hole rear rim into a twenty four spoke front hub but only used 12 spokes, it just showed a complete lack of understanding of the cost benifit relationship of rigidity vs aero.

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Postby krankee1 » 12 Aug 2011, 10:28

http://www.wattagetraining.com/forum/vi ... ?f=2&t=309
This test compares the shamal with an 808, the issue not addressed is the angle of yaw. As per Zipp's stated aim they are optimised for 9 degress which best for road use, whereas the Shamals are 0-3 degrees. The angle of yaw decreases with speed.
You may think why is a 2011 Campagnolo Pista not as fast as their 1999 wheel ?, In 1999 it was their premium race wheel, the Pistas were never intended to do that job.

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Postby mikesbytes » 12 Aug 2011, 13:52

Some interesting info Karankee1, Christian. LOL the 12 spoke 404.

Are their any forums where Alex Simmons hasn't posted? The info is really interesting.

I haven't progressed on wheel purchase, I won't be riding a track bike or a fixie for 6 weeks, so I'm not in a real hurry

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Postby rhys » 12 Aug 2011, 23:09

I'm probably going to go those Fast Forward ones after getting a good look at Simonelli's tonight. I'd love those Eastons, they're $1300 on CRC, but they're $4k here. Failing that I will get some Pistas.

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Postby Adrian E » 17 Aug 2011, 14:58

NOOG wrote:I would recommend going down to Alice street, Newtown to talk to Greg about what he can do for you before you lay out any cash online.


Well I'll be damned. I live next door to TWE!

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Postby timyone » 19 Aug 2011, 15:01

TWE is in Newtown?!

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 19 Aug 2011, 15:32

timyone wrote:TWE is in Newtown?!


Yip, Greg was telling me as he fixed my wheel at CP

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Postby kiwiames » 19 Aug 2011, 22:03

Hmm I am looking at new wheels for my road bike, and TWE is an option, as is buying online. Online options im liking are the Falcrum range - Zeros of course if i can justifie spending that much on a set of wheels or the Racing 1's. Im not keen on pure 'race wheels' as id use them maybe a few times a year, which is not value for money. So im after a nice set of lightweight clinchers - the best for around the $900 mark. What are my options in this price range ?? ... Im going to visit Greg this week to see what he can do.

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Postby orphic » 19 Aug 2011, 23:12

Hey Amy I would personally stay away from the Fulcrums zero's. They are a very stiff wheelset and look very bling however I just think they are too heavy for the $. The claimed weight on them is somewhere around the 1500g mark but I have seen people reporting differences in weight up to about 1700g - that's just nuts! They seem to be pretty well known for grossly under estimating the weight of their wheels.

Greg will be able to build you some wheels that are lighter, stiff and offer great service on them. Can't really beat that.

If I was going to buy factory wheels right now I would probably go for some Dura-Ace C24's. Similar to my RS80's but apparently the DA hubs are very nice.

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Postby timyone » 20 Aug 2011, 10:54

Was it the fulcrums that were good for cyclocross etc?

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Postby Eleri » 20 Aug 2011, 12:25

I'm thinking of getting some Rolf Primas - 650s but only for special occasions which will not include the Alpine Classic.

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Postby rhys » 20 Aug 2011, 22:57

Amy I have the sram al30 race wheels on my felt. They are 18 spoke front/20 rear, pretty light and seem to be quite stiff too. I think they are within your price range. They're the toroidal design too (pretty much zipp 101s, as sram own zipp) and make a subtle aero noise at 20km/h or above.

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Postby Toff » 22 Aug 2011, 13:24

I wouldn't touch any of those dodgy TWE wheels...

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Postby shrubb face » 22 Aug 2011, 14:21

Any justification for that statement Toff? Or am i missing internet sarcasm?

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Postby Toff » 22 Aug 2011, 15:36

No sarcasm. It would seem that lots of people have reported dodgy wheels from TWE. I, personally, have seen a wheelset built by them where the hub was a fake. The hub was supposed to be a high-end brand hub, but was actually a cheap knock off from Asia. When the hub failed, and the owner took it to the Australian distributor (of the legit brand) to claim under warranty, he was told that the hub was a fake. He goes back to TWE and tells them.

When you can prove you have been sold a fake hub by a shop, you would expect, at the very least, a full refund. Instead TWE tells the guy that he will have to wait until they can get some more hubs in and they will replace the wheel. When he tells them that that's not good enough, TWE tells him to return the wheel, and when the fake wheel has been sold to someone else, then he will get his money back, but not before.

I was speaking about this with Geoff at the coffee shop on Saturday. He told me that at one time, TWE were getting around 15 complaints a day from people what were returning broken wheels, all built with sub-par quality cheap components out of Asia.

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Adrian E
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Postby Adrian E » 22 Aug 2011, 16:44

People have a difference of option over the merits of a product... http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewt ... =9&t=14879
Now that would be a first!

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Postby weiyun » 22 Aug 2011, 19:33

I am sure TWE has good intentions, but when competing on lower and lower weight wheels for the same or lower price, something has and will give. Weight don't disappear unless there's less material on the wheel. Unless one maker has found some new super light weight and strong material, the cost/weight equation at any point in time won't shift very much in the open market. And as for all things in the market place, YMMV.

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Toff
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Postby Toff » 23 Aug 2011, 08:45

In Australia, we don't use YMMV. Try YKMV or YDMV.

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Postby weiyun » 23 Aug 2011, 08:58

Toff wrote:In Australia, we don't use YMMV. Try YKMV or YDMV.

Which of the two is the ISO standard? But neither seemed to be a replacement for Your Market May Vary.

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Postby jimmy » 24 Aug 2011, 06:55

Toff wrote:In Australia, we don't use YMMV. Try YKMV or YDMV.


And don't forget, that if you give people 2.54cm, they'll take 1.609 km...

James

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Postby krankee1 » 02 Sep 2011, 18:30

Another win for the Gip's Luke Williams in the U?17 National TT road champs

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Postby timyone » 03 Sep 2011, 13:47

lol at the nationals win thing, congrats to him, just funny place for it! was that by mistake?

I have been riding on some TWE track wheels, Dunno a heap about them, but they are race wheels borrowed from Andre, sponsorship wheels of some sort for the Bernard Beer team. I like them, they are light as (no idea how light, but lighter than most of the wheels I have ridden), and they seem to be stiff enough etc.

I am not amazingly fancy with my description of all this, but I am riding them in A grade at Raw, and they feel pretty competative, I would be happy with them up against any of the disc 5 spoke combinations. It actually took me a while to get used to how light they were!

This is actually the first I have heard about problems with TWE wheels by the way, I have only ever before heard of good service, total spoke replacements with good follow up etc etc, And I have ridden with quite a few high km riders who ride them, so totally surprised at Toffs info, I dont know if it affects the facts to point that Geoff who pointed out the 15 sets of wheels thing works for a bike shop that could be in competition of some sort with them? (i dont know if they actually are, but I always seem to hear things off other shops about each other etc, though I am sure Geoff would have an informed position, but the 15 a day thing just sounds like a lot considering the size of the buisness)

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Postby krankee1 » 04 Sep 2011, 21:05

No mistake, just illistrates the efficiency. In regards to the deep carbons v real quad spoke wheels , just plain wrong I'm afraid. The primary job of race wheels is to go fast, the other considerations are , stiffness, longevity and for some feel. The fact of the matter is with the same power output you will go faster on a real (not rubbish chinese) quad spoke than on a deep dish carbon, Data is available. The other problem with feel is you wont pick up the small details. EG 2 cross spoking pattern is wrong for front race wheels, you wont see it on a world brand aero wheel because its slower than using two extra spokes and going radial, you wont feel that difference but it will cost you time.
To give you an example of how feel can lead you astray. When riders want to test their new wheels a standard test would be to ride up the road have a quick 10 sec sprint, a wheel with rubbish aero characteristics such as a Mavis R-sys will feel quick because the rim is light and accelerates well, but at any speed it uses more power (30% more than DA) than most others making you slower. If you look at your average power output, 290watts will win A some A grade events. Using R sys wheels will cost you 25+ more watts at 40klmph than DA 7850's thats a pretty important detail.

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Postby krankee1 » 05 Sep 2011, 11:49

http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-4934445.html. Lots of data sets. This 2006 test has some three and four spoke carbons. The principles apply to track as well. The main idea is you dont have to guess.

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Postby krankee1 » 22 Sep 2011, 11:42

http://www.kirraweecycles.com.au/Tech.php. I put some more links to results on wheel tests up.

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 22 Nov 2011, 15:04

Just curious, has anyone used Weinmann fixie wheels?

EBay

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 20 Dec 2011, 08:47

These TT wheels are tempting, anyone know anything about them?

Easton 5 spoke wheels

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Postby shrubb face » 20 Dec 2011, 11:03

Well they aren't easton that's for certain, well expect for the stickers maybe.

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 20 Dec 2011, 11:15

Ah fake'ies. Will steer clear. Thanks Alex


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