Travelling to and from races is tax deductable

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 28 Feb 2008, 09:49

ATO - Fitness and sporting industry employees - what expenses can I claim?
Travel

You can claim the cost of travel to work-related conferences and seminars. You may need to keep a travel diary where your travel exceeds six consecutive nights.

You cannot claim the cost of travel for sporting events you attend as a spectator or as a participant if the event is not sufficiently connected with your income earning activities.

For example

An aerobics instructor would not be entitled to claim their travel costs to a fun run. They would be entitled to claim their travel costs to competitions where the prizes won would be part of their income, or where they were coaching students.

"They would be entitled to claim their travel costs to competitions where the prizes won would be part of their income"

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micklan
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Postby micklan » 28 Feb 2008, 10:16

[quote]"They would be entitled to claim their travel costs to competitions where the prizes won would be part of their income"/quote]

So I will buy a carton of crunchies enroute to Heffron and claim it as a travel realted cost

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Toff
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Postby Toff » 28 Feb 2008, 10:22

This is a complex issue, and here is the simplest response I can give.

The web page you reference states clearly at the top "You cannot claim your car expenses from home to work". The exception is conferences, which are differentiated by a number of factors:
A) Not held at usual place of work;
B) Involve additional irregular travel expenes, and accomodation;
C) Involve related, but different duties to those day to day tasks of work.

So the question arises, "Can attending a race be classified as a conference?"

This is a spurious conclusion to draw at best. Regualar racing events don't count since it would be viewed as your regular place of work. Other less frequent racing venues would probably also fail the test since there are no conference activities occurring. Just regular work - bike racing.

However, let's humour you Mike, and assume that you are entitled to claim a tax deduction for your travel to your races, as long as you also include any race winnings as assessible income.

This will mean that either:

A) Your winnings will be greater than your tax deductible costs and you will pay tax on the net income at your marginal rate.

B) Your travel expenses will be greater than your winnings. You wil pay no tax on your winnings, and any losses can be carried forward and be offset against any future race wins.

You cannot claim any losses from (B) against other income you earn. Before arguing with me on this, I suggest you read what the ato has to say about Non-Commercial Losses here.

The tax office already allows bike racing to be treated as a hobby. This means that you don't get to claim expenses for the hobby, but you don't have to account for any winnings either. This is a much simpler solution, that gives the same result (or better!), but without the hassles of all the additional paperwork.

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 28 Feb 2008, 11:04

So I can't negative gear my racing expenses against my daytime income?

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Toff
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Postby Toff » 28 Feb 2008, 11:19

I tried to negatively gear my bike once, but I kept bumping into things and couldn't see where I was going...

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Postby williamd » 28 Feb 2008, 21:11

Hey Michael


You said that you are well known for running your bikes on a shoe string budget.

So therefore you wouldn't get back much in deductions in any case.

By the way on a different topic Mc Kennedy trains at 6.20 am on Tueday and Fridays at Hawthorne Parade.

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Postby williamd » 28 Feb 2008, 21:27

Hey Michael L

The crunchies will match the colour as your new :lol: frame.

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 28 Feb 2008, 21:50

If I know I can get 40% back on tax, my spending would adjust accordingly.

Only poor people pay tax

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Postby jimmy » 29 Feb 2008, 06:54

Big catch here.

To be able to claim your travel costs/entry etc for races (and this would also mean that you could claim the bike and maintenance), you first need to declare any winnings as income and they need to be taxed.

Secondly, and this is the really big catch. You need to win/earn over $5,000 before you can start claiming this.

Good luck getting this at Heffron.

James

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 29 Feb 2008, 08:34

Secondly, and this is the really big catch. You need to win/earn over $5,000 before you can start claiming this.
James, do you know where this $5,000 ruling is written?

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FAswad
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Postby FAswad » 29 Feb 2008, 09:21

Dude, you have completely missed the point anyways. this is for:

[quote="mikesbytes"]Fitness and sporting industry employees - what expenses can I claim?[/url][quote][/b]

you are a recreational rider.

What James said also applies, but I am not sure if what you earn frim races, if you were say a part time professional, would be lumped with your other income for tax purpuses (similar to what happens with income that you receive say from having a savings bank account).

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Postby mikesbytes » 29 Feb 2008, 10:34

Dude, you have completely missed the point anyways. this is for:
This thread is about taxation, not recreational riding

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Postby jimmy » 29 Feb 2008, 11:06

the $5,000 is hearsay. Even if that isn't the right figure, there would have to be some lower limit before you can start claiming. Otherwise it would get out of hand. Let me give you an example.

You enter a single race at Heffron, and place 3rd, whats that worth? $10? OK, so you have a race winnings. Now here goes...

Race Licence + Club Membership - $200
Race Entrance Fees - $10
Bike Depreciation - $????
Bike Repairs - $????
Bike Maintenance - $????
Training Rides - $????

Can you honestly see the taxman going "hey that reasonable"?

I can't.

James

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 29 Feb 2008, 11:22

Generally earnings and expenses are not directly coupled.

You add up your gross earnings and subtract the expenses from it. This is how negative gearing works.

So, if you earn't $100,000 and made $95 in prize money, your gross earnings are $100,095. The you take a away your bicycle expenses, say $2,732 and your income is $97,363 which your tax is calculated on. You subtract you pre tax payments, usually PAYE from the calculated taxation and either pay more tax or get a refund for the excess pre tax payments.

Shame cycle racing is deemed to be a hobby.

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Postby williamd » 29 Feb 2008, 12:36

If your were a professional rider then you may have a legitimate claim for deductions.

You may have a better chance of claiming a deduction for an overseas conference that you have to attend ( near the Tour De France) to further develop your knowledge in your field of work.

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Postby Toff » 29 Feb 2008, 12:39

No-one seems to have taken any notice of my post. You can treat cycling as a hobby, or as a business. It's up to you. However, if you treat it as a business, you must pay tax on the income, but cannot claim deductions against other sources of income. This is because the ATO views the net loss from your cycling business as being "Non Commercial Losses", and therefore not deductible.

There is no minimum income threshold to run your cycling as a business, but it makes no sense unless you are making a profit. Your sport is no longer a hobby though, if your net income exceeds $500 per financial year.

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 29 Feb 2008, 12:47

So you can't negative gear cycling

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Toff
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Postby Toff » 29 Feb 2008, 12:48

I tried to negatively gear my bike once, but I kept bumping into things and couldn't see where I was going...

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 29 Feb 2008, 12:52

I tried to negatively gear my bike once, but I kept bumping into things and couldn't see where I was going...
You already cracked that one

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mcrkennedy
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Postby mcrkennedy » 29 Feb 2008, 13:55

given that income level seems to be the key issue in making racing a tax issue how about we all register as the one person and have one licence and pool the winning of each individual. All those $10 and $20 would add up!

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 29 Feb 2008, 14:02

Problem is, if you can't use it to reduce your overall taxable income, then you cannot make money be declaring it.

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Postby jimmy » 29 Feb 2008, 14:20

I did a search on the ATO's site and came up with this

Taken from here -> http://www.ato.gov.au/content/downloads/NAT2475_07.pdf
The first year that special professional income averaging
applies is the first income year that the taxable professional
income (TPI) you earned as a resident special professional
individual is more than $2,500.
I didn't bother reading any further (I felt that falling asleep at work would be a career limiting move), but from that you need to earn $2,500 in your first year before the ATO care about it any way.

But if what Adrian said is true, then if you earn more than $500, then you have to declare it, but you can't claim anything against it.

James

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 29 Feb 2008, 14:31

Now that Huw is Australian Penny Farthing champion, I guess he'll have to look into taxation, with all those offers coming in.

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Toff
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Postby Toff » 29 Feb 2008, 14:41

James, income averaging is an entirely different discussion. Athletes, and entertainers can average their income over 5 years, but that's nothing to do with tax-deductibility.

Mike, my humour was obviously lost on you. I was trying to express the Deja-vu feelings I am having reading other peoples trains of thought...


I would forget about trying to claim tax deductions in relation to cycling as a business. None of us are genuinely riding our bikes as a business, and I can't remember anyone doing it since Stephen Pate. Most pros seem to be salaried employees these days.

What IS worth looking into is ways to claim your cycling expenses in relation to your usual job. This is MUCH easier, and basically, if you can claim your petrol, depreciation, etc. for a car in your job, then you can probably find a way to claim your bike-riding expenses. Just remember that riding directly from home to work and back is not claimable, but could be made partially claimable if you have the opportunity to salary package through your employer.

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 29 Feb 2008, 14:52

Chis, I was just commenting that you cracked the same joke twice.

My IBM work address is Pyrmont, where my customer address is wherever, currently Chatswood.

Wonder what the distance allowance is for a bicycle?

BTW, plenty of posts in the thread, don't we hate paying tax.

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Postby jimmy » 29 Feb 2008, 15:01

BTW, plenty of posts in the thread, don't we hate paying tax.
Strangely enough, no.

While some of my tax dollars are obviously wasted, not all of them are.

My issue with Tax, is that some people go to great lengths to avoid paying any tax. I admit that I fiddle the system slightly, but at the end of the day I pay my fair share. I may get a little back that I am not entirely entitled to but there are some (*cough*Kerry Packer*cough*) who will go to the ends of the earth to avoid paying tax full stop.

James

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Postby mikesbytes » 29 Feb 2008, 15:09

Yip, I repeat myself, only poor people pay tax. One of the arguments for GST, is that it collects tax regardless. GST is an area that I know bugger all about.

Rich people not paying tax is the real reason I don't like paying tax. Why should they bludge off me?

When Murdoch got divorced, he stated that he didn't have any assets. In the end, his ex only got $2M


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