JamesF's accident and upcoming AGM

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weiyun
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Postby weiyun » 20 May 2007, 11:23

Given JamesF's unfortunately accident coming back from Waterfall today, I would propose that there be a specific agenda item in our upcoming AGM to discuss and review the various safety issues surrounding our various club rides. As I overhead while attending James, consideration for action at the council and discussions with our fellow cycling clubs eg. RBCC/Eastern Suburbs, may be warranted.

In any case, best wishes for JamesF's recovery in the meantime. I hope the insurance would cover his treatment and other damages well. It would be in all's interest to know what the procedure are and the outcome.

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lindsay
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Postby lindsay » 20 May 2007, 14:14

For those of us not at our Waterfall ride this morning we did indeed have a stack. The root cause was a road surface breaking up and scattering large rocks across the break down lane where we cycle. Riders got pinch flats as they hit the rocks & James went into the back of a rider who was falling from 2 flats.

We all stopped and with the care of Weiyun kept James comfortable until the Ambulance arrived. I then got a ride in the front of the Ambulance (no flashing lights or siren :( ) and off the St George we went.

When I left at about midday James was still in the neck brace and had been X-rayed & CT scanned. Hopefully these will be clear. He has a big shiner (blackeye), a cut above his eye, chipped front teeth, a sore finger & some skin off his shoulder. He's was talking and joking with us but was not looking forward to a long afternoon in casualty.

I agree with Weiyun a discussion about our bunch riding on Sundays would be good as this is the second crash we had in the same spot for the same reason in 2 years.

-- Why you should be nice to the Ambo's --

I was chatting to the driver of the Ambulance today & he said that a couple of weeks ago he was driving the Ambulance from Waterrfall into the National Park down the big hill. There was a bunch of cyclists behind him and although he knew he was slowing them he told me he did his best to let them pass him. When they did one of the riders was irate & gave him a gob fill of abuse. Then he said "this really upset me because we spend all weekend picking up injured riders and I go a long way out of my way for them and to have to cop this really hurt". He said Sunday mornings is mainly picking up motorbike riders & pushbike riders. It's bad news to have to call an Ambulance but a relief when they arrive.

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Postby weiyun » 21 May 2007, 01:27

-- Why you should be nice to the Ambo's --

I was chatting to the driver of the Ambulance today & he said that a couple of weeks ago he was driving the Ambulance from Waterrfall into the National Park down the big hill. There was a bunch of cyclists behind him and although he knew he was slowing them he told me he did his best to let them pass him. When they did one of the riders was irate & gave him a gob fill of abuse. Then he said "this really upset me because we spend all weekend picking up injured riders and I go a long way out of my way for them and to have to cop this really hurt". He said Sunday mornings is mainly picking up motorbike riders & pushbike riders. It's bad news to have to call an Ambulance but a relief when they arrive.
It's ironic isn't it? Typically it's the cyclists who hold up cars and are on the receiving end.

You are right. All the ambos I've seen are sensible drivers, guess they have seen too much of what happens on the other side of the fence.

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Postby jimmy » 21 May 2007, 11:12

I know that I don't ride with the DHBC group much, but I think that we need to revisit how we deal with other bunches.

As Simon said, we are in a bad habit of tagging on the back of other bunches as they pass us, or leave the 7-11 in Sutherland.

Now that we are a much bigger club, I think that we should stop the habbit, if we are faster we should make an effort to overtake them, and if they are faster we should resist the temptation to jump on the back.

Further, if we find that there is a bunch that we can't seem to let go (i.e. they overtook us and then slowed down), then maybe we should pull over for 1 min or so. That way they get 500m up the road and we hopefully shouldn't see them again.

I know in the past when I have sat on the back of some of the other bunches that I have been pretty disgusted with the constant changing pace and surging in the bunch. I also know that James M has had fun and games with an Easts Rider who wanted to turn around before Waterfall. That is another thing which causes issues with these bunches, they have a lot of riders who turn around just before Waterfall and that causes problems at that point, and on the way back to Sutherland.

What are other people's thoughts?

James

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Postby geoff m » 21 May 2007, 13:41

I certainly think we should look at all the options and issues and come up with some guidelines. As cycling grows for all the clubs as well as individual riders, this will become a bigger issue.

Some thoughts of mine:
  • Tend to agree with James's thoughts above
  • We could limit the faster return from Waterfall into just out club, and further, limit it to sizes of no greater than 8 to 10 people. This would reduce risks should one rider or more experience difficulty. It may require us breaking into 2 groups at Waterfall
  • Beginner riders (who show faster ability) not to ride with fastest group back from Waterfall until they show more experience, and are Club members, which provides them with some insurance coverage
  • Discussing our thoughts with the other 3 major Sydney clubs so we can tackle issue as a wider community
  • There could be exceptions - eg. allowing the odd 1 to 2 riders dropped, the ability to jump on the back of other clubs groups so they are not left behind. WOuld be reciprocal.
  • Making sure all riders (we follow this well in our club) understand their legal obligations on the road including following traffic signals if at the front of a group coming to a red signal

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Postby T-Bone » 22 May 2007, 14:57

I agree with James in that we should get out of the habit of jumping on the back of other bunches and just ride as our own bunch.

Dropped riders on the back of other clubs bunches is fine, but we just need to try and keep the main bunch seperate.

I don't think we need to pull over if another bunch overtakes us and slows down, but we should just slow to allow a suitable gap to seperate our bunches.

Sizes of greater than 10 in the bunch is not the issue, it's just the riders at the front need to know and remeber when the best decision is to take over a lane on the road for a while, which is really what probably should have happened on Sunday, because even though the front riders can see the rocks easily enough, they don't always consider that riders half way down the bunch won't be able to see, and when travelling at 50km/h any signalling probably won't make it through the bunch in time.

Sometimes the risk might not be obvious until close up, such as a small pot hole, but the decision must be made that there's too much risk even when something might not look too bad from a distance.

Guess we can discuss it more at the meeting, though i believe all riders must also be aware that whenever they ride there are risks, it's just minimising the risks that is the key.

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Postby lindsay » 22 May 2007, 17:01

I came to the conclusion about a year ago that the leg from Waterfall to Sutherland was dangerous and I wasn't going to sit on those fast bunches anymore.

Over the years I have watched my friend Chris stack it at the end of the mad mile when he hit a dropped engine part and got 2 instant punctures that sent him feet first off the road. He wrote off his bike & injured himself.

Had exactly the same stack as last Sunday which put me upside down in a ditch on top of Greg's friend Pat.

Wrote off my beautiful Paul Taylor frame when I hit a pot hole on the back of RBCC.

And seen several other stacks in other clubs. Also the death that occured almost a year ago when the 3 social riders clipped wheels on the mad mile.

So I decided to ride the fixie which took me out of the fast bunches and I felt a good degree of safety had returned. Recently I've gone back to my road bike beacuse I have now made a permanant slowies bunch so I need to keep in with them during the faster spots. I believe a slowies bunch is essential to give riders an alternative to the fast bunches.

I would like to pose a question - Why do we need to go that fast on that section? If it's for training I don't see how 15 minutes a week of fast unstructured riding is going to make any difference? You can't really pratice race skills as it's on a public road. So what's it for?

My position recently has been to take myself out of it but not to be critical of other riders who persist with the fast groups. I sailed for many years and the one thing that was drummed into us was the skipper was responsible for the boat and must make the decission to race or not. When it was as we'd call it "black out there" we would stand on the shore and think long & hard about if we went out or not. So I think the same thing should apply to us on pushies. Keep a close eye on bunch your in, what the other riders are doing, the conditions and your gut feeling & if something's wrong - pull out.

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Postby mikesbytes » 22 May 2007, 17:27

I would like to point out that if you are going to slow or stop, you should shout your intentions.

I'm not too concerned with the "Beginner fast rider", its usually only one person at max and what tends to happen when we are by ourselves is that the B and C grade riders do a paceline or take turns at the front while the other riders sit in behind.

At one point we were discussing the fast bunch going a little further up the highway, which in theory would result in us arriving at the servo around the same time as the slower bunch.

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Postby fenn_paddler » 22 May 2007, 18:25

I would like to pose a question - Why do we need to go that fast on that section? If it's for training I don't see how 15 minutes a week of fast unstructured riding is going to make any difference? You can't really pratice race skills as it's on a public road. So what's it for?
I agree.

Years ago when I was a young rider in Warwick, a fellow club member had a similar face plant over the handlebar accident. Because we only wore hairnet helmets back then he wasn't as lucky as James and ended up in a coma for weeks. We visited him in hospital just after he came out of the coma and I remember three things - he could barely remember our names, the hospital hadn't bothered to fix his broken shoulder because he wasn't expected to pull through, and he'd had a massive piece of skull cut out to relieve pressure on his brain. He eventually came good but ended up with a big plate in the head and no more bike riding.

So this latest incident is a real wake-up call. Last sunday was the craziest back-to-loftus I've participated in. The guy with the flat tires that James hit was dangerous - I wouldn't have been that far in front and I think the guy was going 15 km/h tops. The speed differential between him and the other riders was huge. The short-cutters we passed just after the turn were dangerous, and the road debris was hairy as well (I got a flat shortly afterwards). A smaller bunch would have been much safer.

Once I get my RideIt membership sorted I'm going to either follow your approach (well maybe not to the extent of a fixie), or go down via RNP so I'll be too stuffed to want to participate in the mad stuff back to loftus.

Cheers,
Alan Whiteman

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Postby JM » 22 May 2007, 21:35

yep i think its time we instigated a dhbc ride together policy and no jumping to other bunches as we are getting quite large.

it was the most hairy run back from waterfall i have seen with numerous bunches coming together at different speeds, abilities and then the debris just made it worse.

am happy to hold back on the "jumping" and keep it together.

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Postby mikesbytes » 22 May 2007, 21:49

Once we are past the initial section and end up in the left lane (no shoulder), the road is fine all the way unitl just before the end.

The sprint at the end depends on how many and who the riders are. And comon sense prevails. On Sunday neither James M or myself participated in the sprint as it simply wasn't suitable.

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Postby Adrian E » 22 May 2007, 22:04

Yeap. Sounds good to me. If fasties want a sprint work out the best place to do that is at the track.

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Postby jimmy » 23 May 2007, 09:30

Having read what Lindsay wrote, I think that we need to put in some fundamental changes to the way we ride back from Waterfall.

Personally, I like flogging it back from Watefall to Sutherland. I have often felt that while Waterfall is a ride that I do very frequently, it is that run back that makes it worthwhile.

So, what can we do to make it safer.

First up, I think that we need to stop doing the sprint at Sutherland. I think that this is one of the root problems. Along the last sections of the mad mile, it causes people to try and get near the front without being on the front, and waiting for someone else to attack. Get rid of the sprint, and we will just continue a fast pace all the way back.

Once the sprint has gone, it means that we can focus on riding at a consistant fast pace on the way back, this will also mean that we aren't as concerend about getting stuck at a red light, if it splits the bunch, then so be it.

That way as well, we can focus on our bunch riding skills at speed, we will (hopefully) roll off the front and share the load a lot better. It means that someone can sit on the back without having to worry about the surges that occur when attacks happen.

Maybe as well, that some of the stronger riders can mentor some of the slower riders who are looking at trying to increase their speed. The way I see this working, is the two riders (mentor and student) ride back from Waterfall seperate from either bunch. That way the mentor can basically sit on the front and the student suffers and tries to hang on. This way it gives someone the chance to try riding fast without having to worry about a big bunch around them.

I know that what I am suggesting is controversial, but I think that it is something that we need to consider in light of this latest accident.

James

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Postby FAswad » 23 May 2007, 12:57

First off, James, happy you're out and well.

I must admit that I have never been able to resist the temptation of going with the attacks/surges/sprints on Waterfall-Sutherland section. So guilty I am.

I know most of you are going to hate me, but my suggestion is DHBC ditch the Waterfall-Sutherland section in favour riding into the National Park at Waterfall and going out at Audley.

The cons:
30min longer ride (if you want to call this a con)
no sprint

The pros on the other hand are:
a safer return;
less cars;
great nature;
better training & more climbing (Lets change this to a pro. its time we embraced climbing!);
an opportunity to practice group riding skills, like paceline rotation and whatnot (something I have done once with a bunch of other riders is group allow 1 rider to take-off then group try to pull rider back).

Think about it for a sec. RNP is the way to go. Who cares If we have to wait 10min for all to regroup at the RNP exit. let it be. We can start 10 minutes earlier. In time the 10min wait will be 5 and the five 2...

So my suggestion is no more Waterfall-Sutherland. You want to sprint? Sprint your heart out on the RNP false flats.

Now y'all can take your flamethrowers out and start flaming!

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Postby weiyun » 23 May 2007, 13:09

Doing the RNP sure will raise DHBC's strength overall. But I think it'll scare off all the new riders. But then they can do the Waterfall ride to toughen up first. :wink:

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Postby lindsay » 23 May 2007, 13:11

I know most of you are going to hate me, but my suggestion is DHBC ditch the Waterfall-Sutherland section in favour riding into the National Park at Waterfall and going out at Audley.
I like the idea... Of the bunches we ride with we would have the shortest ride beacuse we don't start & return to Centennial.

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Postby mikesbytes » 23 May 2007, 13:18

Approx 50% of my Sunday rides this year have been RNP. My preference for RNP is Audley in, Waterfall out because I prefer to still do the mad mile.

On the Waterfall ride, I consider the first section from Waterfall bridge to be the most dangerous, as you have a narrow shouder with a 100kph speed limit and rolling hills, so in my opinion using the left car lane is not an option until we are into the 70kph section, where we occupy the left lane.

I agree about not mixing it with another bunch for this first section, so to reduce risks caused by the additional congestion.

Personally I don't see the final sprint to be a major problem, as if the conditions are not suitable, then you simply don't sprint.

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Postby FAswad » 23 May 2007, 13:24

"if the conditions are not suitable" is another way of saying "sometimes the final sprint is a major problem."
Personally I don't see the final sprint to be a major problem, as if the conditions are not suitable, then you simply don't sprint.

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Postby mikesbytes » 23 May 2007, 13:27

"if the conditions are not suitable" is another way of saying "sometimes the final sprint is a major problem."
No, the final sprint is not a major problem if you don't participate. James M and I didn't participate in the final sprint on Sunday because it was not suitable. When it is suitable I will participate.

What I'm saying is use common sense.

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Postby FAswad » 23 May 2007, 13:33

Doing the RNP sure will raise DHBC's strength overall. But I think it'll scare off all the new riders. But then they can do the Waterfall ride to toughen up first. :wink:
Why?
Why would it scare anyone? There is no race. no time limit. ride your pace, not that of James C. regroup at top. many clubs do it.

The intention here is to propose a safer, more entertaining more benefitial solution for all DHBC riders, including the new riders. Toughen up? no better place to do it that the hills. [/u]

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Postby weiyun » 23 May 2007, 13:38

When I said it'll scare off new riders is not meant to be a negative nor is the time the issue. For new riders, I don't think they would be fit enough to handle all the RNP climbs. I know that it took me a few months of riding to get used to Waterfall alone and it would have been suicide to jump for RNP in the first place.

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Postby FAswad » 23 May 2007, 13:40

No, the final sprint is not a major problem if you don't participate. James M and I didn't participate in the final sprint on Sunday because it was not suitable. When it is suitable I will participate.

What I'm saying is use common sense.[/quote]

In some occasions, by the time you have realised the conditions are not suitable (e.g. conditions similar to those where the crash happened on sunday ie road debris pot-holes etc..., I have seen it there myself on many a ride), it would be too late.

The other thing is, I am not primarily advocating for hill training here. Going in at audley and out at waterfall means we have not avoided that dangerous section on the highway.

I am advocating for a safer return. It just happens to have hills. Hills are benefitial. so be it

this is my train of thought.

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Postby weiyun » 23 May 2007, 13:45

Yes, that would be very good once a club member has attained a certain level of fitness. Personally I also like the Waterfall-Audley direction for RNP for the same reason I never felt safe on the return leg from Waterfall.

Now we'll just have to work on achieving a 30kph average with RNP... :shock:

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Postby Simon Llewellyn » 23 May 2007, 13:45

Alot of the new riders who attend Saturday slowies comment on how much of a jump waterfall is from doing a few laps around centennial park & it's true you often forget how far 80kms really is for someone who's never ridden more than a 40kms before. 96kms through the national part is way too much for someone new, they are very welcome but untill their body acclimatises and they get the bike right, they are at high risk of injuries....

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Postby lindsay » 23 May 2007, 13:46

For new riders, I don't think they would be fit enough to handle all the RNP climbs.
I think what I would do is continue running the slowies as we have been, however it would be a good goal for new riders to work towards. I could make a call on the day depending on who we have with us. For me I don't mind which way I go as through the Park is good & not through the Park gives me a better training session on Monday nights.

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Postby FAswad » 23 May 2007, 13:48

When I said it'll scare off new riders is not meant to be a negative nor is the time the issue. For new riders, I don't think they would be fit enough to handle all the RNP climbs. I know that it took me a few months of riding to get used to Waterfall alone and it would have been suicide to jump for RNP in the first place.
Fine then.

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Postby Simon Llewellyn » 23 May 2007, 13:58

I think too you've got to acknowledge not all riders want to be climbers. Doing alot of climbing is good but you may loose some horse power. But that shouldn't stop you guys from doing the nato every week, i'm going to keep riding my fixie on the waterfall circuit regardless if the whole of Sydney decides to ride the nato... Just watch for motorbikes...

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Postby FAswad » 23 May 2007, 14:16

fair enough. Not that I, a clydesdale at 92kg, will ever be anything close to a climber. I only intended this suggestion as a way for us to keep riding, and keep riding the safest route possible... But if it ain't gonna work, it ain't gonna work.

(About losing horsepower frm climbing, now thats the debateable part. Climbing is a power/weight affair. That is, to climb better, you either need to increase power, or decrease weight. concentrate on the first and you'll be great. but thats a different thread and different discussion altogether :wink: )

I think too you've got to acknowledge not all riders want to be climbers. Doing alot of climbing is good but you may loose some horse power. But that shouldn't stop you guys from doing the nato every week, i'm going to keep riding my fixie on the waterfall circuit regardless if the whole of Sydney decides to ride the nato... Just watch for motorbikes...

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Postby jimmy » 23 May 2007, 14:32

Personally I don't see the final sprint to be a major problem, as if the conditions are not suitable, then you simply don't sprint.
It only takes one person to attack towards the end, and another with competitive spirit, for the sprint to suddenly be on.

When you are flogging along the mad mile, who determines if the conditions are "suitable"? I think we should have a blanket ban on the sprint still, it stops one person saying that they are bad conditions and another thinking that they are fine.
Why would it scare anyone? There is no race. no time limit. ride your pace, not that of James C. regroup at top. many clubs do it.

The intention here is to propose a safer, more entertaining more benefitial solution for all DHBC riders, including the new riders. Toughen up? no better place to do it that the hills.
You need to remember that you weren't always as strong as you are now. I only have to look through my training diary to see that I have improved over the years. Yes the RNP is an option, but even from Waterfall to Audley it is a hard ride, yes it is easier than the opposite direction, but it is still hard. How did you feel when you did it the first time? I know that I have done that ride lots of times and it has shattered me on many of them.

Waterfall I think is a good option, it is a good distance, no major hills and because a lot of people cycle that way, cars are pretty used to us. But we need to consider the safety side of it. From what I can see the problem is more with the trip from Waterfall to Sutherland. Whenever I have seen an accident it is typically along that section. Maybe we need to change the way we ride full stop. Compared to how I ride solo, our pace changes a lot more. When I ride solo, I typically warm up, and then wind up and stay going hard. Perhaps we should look at doing that more. That way we won't be going that much faster on the way back from Waterfall, why? Because we were already pushing the pace on the way to Waterfall in the first place. As lindsay said, do we really get that much benefit from 15mins/week? Surely it would be better to put in two and a half hours worth every week to improve our fitness.

Currently, when I feel like having an easy ride on Sunday's, I ride with the club, that is why I haven't riden with you guys much this year. You see me on the road between Sutherland and Waterfall as I do a lot of solo riding, this isn't because I don't like riding with the club, it is simply because I can get more value out of riding solo than with the club. If we want to try and achieve more as a club, then I think that we need to look at getting better training out of the time that we have. I don't think that we do that currently achieve that.

And ultimately, if you want to get your sprint practice in, use the track.

James

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Postby Simon Llewellyn » 23 May 2007, 16:58

Hey guys I'll just warn you, there seems to be a lot of people saying if you want to practice your sprint do it on the track. Well the track is a bit different to the road. Track sprinting is about a good gear and high cadence, road sprinting is all about driving the biggest gear possible....

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Postby mcrkennedy » 23 May 2007, 17:30

I think that James has hit the nail on the head. The issue as I see as one of the not so strong riders is not where we ride or how long or how hard but why we ride as a club.

I assume that that we ride with the club for the commardarie etc as well as for training. There are a number of riders on Sunday who I believe ride well within themselves and other(like me) who are really pushed at time.

James says that he rides with the club when he want a slower training ride. I think that James has the right attitude to the club ride, and when it does not suit his needs he does not try to make the club ride into something it is not.

We have discussed before the issue of fast and slow groups and I think we have agreed that we don't want to go down the SCC path of a fast and slow group. The first ride of the month arrangements accommodates the needs of stronger rider wanting to push themselves harder.

I would like the rides to be at a good pace and for us to stay together as much as possible. I don't think that we need to have the sprint but I think that it should be a personal choice and that safety should always be the number one consideration in attempting the sprint.

I think the Sunday ride should be demanding with out being onerous and that there is an expectation that people put in some training during the week to improve their fitness. Speeds in the mid to high 30 and even in to the 40 when the conditions are right on the flats and working on hill climbing on the way out to Waterfall.

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Postby geoff m » 23 May 2007, 18:37

Good to get everyone's thoughts down. That is how the club evolves based on membership demands, diversity and other risk issues.

As we get bigger, we might have an opportunity here to look at 2 rides departing every Sunday.

6.00am through RNP (usually entering at Waterfall)

6.30am to Waterfall and returing back, with some guidelines (which we need to agree on) on protocol to reduce risks

I think if we are going to get stronger, many more of us (me included) need to do more hill training, more regularly. I might not want to do that everyweek, but maybe 1 to 3 times per month.

But there is still definitely a need for an easier 80kms for each of us to opt into, as well as offer to newer members this as a major ride.

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Postby weiyun » 23 May 2007, 19:10

road sprinting is all about driving the biggest gear possible....
Is that true?!?

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Postby T-Bone » 23 May 2007, 20:33

I never really contest the sprint at Sutherland myself, as i don't feel it achieves anything. I may pick the pace up coming towards it, but that's really just testing my legs, and gives me an idea of my form. It's safer if we decide not to do it, as even if you want to practice sprinting, you're better off doing intervals.

I do enjoy riding back from Waterfall to Sutherland along the Highway, mainly just for the high speed and big gears, and a bit of fun when you get a gap on the bunch and try to hold them off. This would also be possible in the RNP.

I do like the idea of riding through RNP from Waterfall to Sutherland, and wouldn't mind doing it every week, however i believe we have to keep the other ride going for those that don't want to go through RNP. I'm happy to test it out for a while when i'm back on the bike, though i'd like to try it leaving at 6.30am, that way we can keep the pace high, no need to regroup with the slower bunch, just at a few spots in the park after the climbs. Overall i think the time gap won't be much more than 15min, if it gets to be even that much.

You still have to remember, even though you avoid the problems of riding along the highway, there are still dangers in RNP, such as the high speed descents, and people will have to remember to ride to their level, and not to take risks to keep up.
Maybe as well, that some of the stronger riders can mentor some of the slower riders who are looking at trying to increase their speed. The way I see this working, is the two riders (mentor and student) ride back from Waterfall seperate from either bunch. That way the mentor can basically sit on the front and the student suffers and tries to hang on. This way it gives someone the chance to try riding fast without having to worry about a big bunch around them.
Sounds like a good idea, i always enjoy trying to burn people off, but only when my legs feel good.

We should probably all write our ideas down, and then try and formulate a plan at the General Meeting.

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 23 May 2007, 21:27

When you are flogging along the mad mile, who determines if the conditions are "suitable"?
I do.

I don't make the decision for others and I don't expect others to make the decision for me.

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Postby jimmy » 24 May 2007, 06:29

I do.
So if you are the only one who decides that the conditions are suitable, and you launch your sprint and cross the line first.

What was the point?

The whole idea behind something like this is to test yourself against others. If you are the only one who wants to take part, then it is pretty pointless.

Lets have a look at another sprint/race that we used to have on the ride. The hill back up to West Botany Rd after leaving the bike path past the M5 East entranceway.

That hill was (and still is) dangerous to race up, because there is a reasonably trafficked road at the top, I can remember racing up there, and then having to lean on the brakes to stop so I don't get collected by car. Subsequently we no longer compete on that climb, and so that is now a lot safer, yes we sometimes still push the pace against each other up there, but there is no race. It is just too dangerous. personally, if you do race up there right to the top, it is more a game of chicken than anything else, you just have to hold your nerve longer than the others to ensure that they hit their brakes first. Pretty stupid if you ask me.

Lets take this as an example on how to treat the mad mile, yes, we can keep the pace high, but there is no race for the white line, just keep the pace high, do away with attacks and cross the line as a bunch (or the remains of the bunch).

James

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Postby mikesbytes » 24 May 2007, 11:00

Well I do a sprint even when I'm with myself. Thats my choice. The sprint at the end is part of the training, it is not a race. I will continue to do the sprint when I consider it safe to do so.

Sprinting to the top of that hill is plain stupid, why would be be sprinting into a blind interestion. When I sprinted up there, I stoped before reaching intersection.


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