Hi all,
We have an exciting initiative we are going to launch and trial, with the support of Randwick Botany Cycling Club (RBCC).
Given all discussion around many of us wanting further skills training, we have held discussions with RBCC and they have agreed for us to use Heffron Park during the time they lease out the circuit for their kids training and for A, B, C & D racing.
Here are the details:
Saturday 28th March: - 2:15pm depart Mick Mazzas for bunch ride to Heffron Park, or directly meet us at Heffron Park at the pool car park next to RBCC Club House by 3.00pm.
http://www.randwickbotanycc.com/Location%20Map.htm
Please note you can only participate under Cycling Federation rules and Botany Council rules if you have a Ride It licence or above. You must bring this, or your receipt (for those waiting for their cards - Lindsay is following this up with the Federation). Please note that without evidence of a current licence RBCC will not be able to allow you to participate.
Joanne from Randwick Botany will register your licence details on their computer, you will sign on, and get a race number (for easy identification). Please also bring $5 which we have agreed will go towards the lease cost RBCC pays for use of the circuit.
Lindsay will then conduct bunch pace line and other bunch training. We will focus on basic skills which will help promote smoother and safer rides on Sundays and help people also graduate to the Middies group.
This is a trial, and we would appreciate a great turnout for the first session. If it is successful, this will then be held on the LAST SATURDAY of each month, at Heffron Park. RBCC will jointly promote this training for all licence holders of all clubs to join us, facilitated by DHBC. It will be a great partnership between DHBC and RBCC, demonstrating our close ties with this club. Thanks to John and Joanne Buckton and their club committee for working with us on this.
Training will go for up to one hour and cease at 4.00pm. We will then stay on for one hour to watch the A, B, C and D racing and cheer on our DHBC racers. Some of you may even wish to trial D grade (with a full racing licence, so please speak to Lindsay or myself if you want to consider this).
We will depart for Marrickville at 5.00pm arriving back at about 5.45pm, so you can have a shower, go out and party (two drinks only), and then get up early for Waterfall on Sunday!!!!!
Road Riding Bunch Skills Session-Heffron Park Sat 28th March
Even better, put a post in the Introduce Yourself topic under Conversation and include a photoSo that you know who I am I ride most Sunday's in slowies on a blue Trek.
BTW, I'll be there too but as Jo said we have an early dinner date so don't know how long we can stay for the racing.
Last edited by Stuart on 23 Mar 2009, 07:11, edited 1 time in total.
OK - Issue here is I paid my dues on 3/2/09 and the emailed receipt says "This receipt is proof that such person has paid membership fees. This receipt must be produced when competing in all cycling events under the auspices of Cycling Australia (including club and state events) until your license card is received. This form does not replace a license and is only interim proof of membership. This receipt is valid for one month from the date of payment."Please note you can only participate under Cycling Federation rules and Botany Council rules if you have a Ride It licence or above. You must bring this, or your receipt (for those waiting for their cards - Lindsay is following this up with the Federation). Please note that without evidence of a current licence RBCC will not be able to allow you to participate.
That month is well and truly up - so will RBCC honour it anyway or do I need to contact cycling Australia for another interim receipt even though Lindsay is looking into it?
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shrubb face
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I used my reciept for about 3 months while I waited for my license to arrive. That includes nsw cycling events at dunc gray, so i suspect that you will probably be fine with yours.
IF i remember rightly they never once even looked at the details on the reciept anyway.
IF i remember rightly they never once even looked at the details on the reciept anyway.
Stuart,OK - Issue here is I paid my dues on 3/2/09 and the emailed receipt says "This receipt is proof that such person has paid membership fees. This receipt must be produced when competing in all cycling events under the auspices of Cycling Australia (including club and state events) until your license card is received. This form does not replace a license and is only interim proof of membership. This receipt is valid for one month from the date of payment."
That month is well and truly up - so will RBCC honour it anyway or do I need to contact cycling Australia for another interim receipt even though Lindsay is looking into it?
Unfortunately, periods of up to 8 weeks for receipt of licence from online renewal are not uncommon. I'm not aware of anyone being refused entry, with a valid receipt, given club officials are very aware of these delays themselves.
Also, for all those other individuals who have paid cash/cheque through Lindsay, and are still waiting, Lindsay followed up with the Federation today and they should be able to have these finalised very soon. Just to be sure, Lindsay will send out receipts in the mail to the home addresses of each individual.
If you have any concerns about receiving the receipts, please contact Lindsay.
Sorry folks - slow issuance of licences is an ongoing issue and not something we particularly are pleased with.
Some feedback from Saturday - This post was headed Road Riding Bunch Skills Session but as explained to me by Lindsay after the event it was really a session to get people used to close bunch racing at Heffron and turning tight corners at close quarters. I think many (all?) people who attended as students were keen to practice pace line and bunch skills and have absolutely no intention of road racing.
Additionally, the pace of one of the bunches was way too fast for us cruisers (who made up the majority of the students) and the other bunch seemed to not really know what they / we were supposed to be doing and were became fragmented, once again the result of going too fast for some of the riders.
I would submit that for Bunch and especially pace line training we should utilise Centennial Park on Sat at slowies, even having a session at 7:30 or 8:00 after a few faster laps/hills and that this training should be at a slow <20kph pace where technique and procedure is practised. As many posts have shown, pace line can be a problem even for the fast and middies bunches and I feel strongly this is where DHBC should be focusing its efforts for rider training.
Additionally, the pace of one of the bunches was way too fast for us cruisers (who made up the majority of the students) and the other bunch seemed to not really know what they / we were supposed to be doing and were became fragmented, once again the result of going too fast for some of the riders.
I would submit that for Bunch and especially pace line training we should utilise Centennial Park on Sat at slowies, even having a session at 7:30 or 8:00 after a few faster laps/hills and that this training should be at a slow <20kph pace where technique and procedure is practised. As many posts have shown, pace line can be a problem even for the fast and middies bunches and I feel strongly this is where DHBC should be focusing its efforts for rider training.
I wasn't there at the Heffron training session due to regular kid commitments, so no input there. But in relation to CP training, I'd suggest that if you want to do paceline, then do it as early as possible. By 7:30/8am, the number of riders in the park has picked up and it would not be safe to do paceline work. 7am for 15-20mins makes a lot more sense.I would submit that for Bunch and especially pace line training we should utilise Centennial Park on Sat at slowies, even having a session at 7:30 or 8:00 after a few faster laps/hills and that this training should be at a slow <20kph pace where technique and procedure is practised. As many posts have shown, pace line can be a problem even for the fast and middies bunches and I feel strongly this is where DHBC should be focusing its efforts for rider training.
IMHO, the problem with this past Sun's mixed Fastie/Middie "paceline" can probably be summarized by,
1) Way too many riders. It's more of a bunch than a paceline.
2) Differences in riders' strength and skill, causing gaps, irregular pace and inadequate communication.
A good paceline is one that sustains a steady power output without sudden surges and one that rides at the power of the least powerful rider. Dropping others is not the name of the game here but smoothness is. So, you are best to find 3-4 other riders with similar ability (strength) and form your own paceline training group.
Thanks Stuart, we also spoke at Heffron Park,
Having not done this before, it was a learning experience. I would be keen for other feedback as well to make this work better.
Some learnings:
Divvy up into two groups, one slower and one faster.
Ensure a variety of skills is practiced - cornering, single paceline, double paceline, and two lined bunch. We also need to practice communication as well.
Improve our communication so no one is dropped in the two different ranked groups. This will also work well for Sundays as well where ideally no one should be dropped - at least in Cruisers
The second group started to get into a good rythym and I think we had a good training routine worked out towards the end (maybe someone in the second group with Christian has a view on this?)
There were other riders from other clubs, and with the right routines, this will generate more interest from other clubs and will be a great partnership with RBCC as well as feed new potential racers into D Grade, for those interested in racing.
We need to leave Marrickville 30 mins earlier. This will allow us to register,and practice for one hour, then get off 15 minutes before the racing when other riders are warming up.
Centennial Park is not ideal for training due to obstructions and dense traffic making it more dangerous. Heffron Park is perfect. We just have to refine on the routines.
The club is investing in another 12 people to receive cycling training skills to help promote training and development, both on club rides as well as these training rides. Once accredited in May, there will be more people able to contribute, with more structure. (ps - those of you contacted to participate in training skills should be receiving your workbooks from today - mine arrived today)
Anyway - interested in others feedback.
Having not done this before, it was a learning experience. I would be keen for other feedback as well to make this work better.
Some learnings:
Divvy up into two groups, one slower and one faster.
Ensure a variety of skills is practiced - cornering, single paceline, double paceline, and two lined bunch. We also need to practice communication as well.
Improve our communication so no one is dropped in the two different ranked groups. This will also work well for Sundays as well where ideally no one should be dropped - at least in Cruisers
The second group started to get into a good rythym and I think we had a good training routine worked out towards the end (maybe someone in the second group with Christian has a view on this?)
There were other riders from other clubs, and with the right routines, this will generate more interest from other clubs and will be a great partnership with RBCC as well as feed new potential racers into D Grade, for those interested in racing.
We need to leave Marrickville 30 mins earlier. This will allow us to register,and practice for one hour, then get off 15 minutes before the racing when other riders are warming up.
Centennial Park is not ideal for training due to obstructions and dense traffic making it more dangerous. Heffron Park is perfect. We just have to refine on the routines.
The club is investing in another 12 people to receive cycling training skills to help promote training and development, both on club rides as well as these training rides. Once accredited in May, there will be more people able to contribute, with more structure. (ps - those of you contacted to participate in training skills should be receiving your workbooks from today - mine arrived today)
Anyway - interested in others feedback.
It was the first traning session so not every thing was going to go to plan, however, I think the majority of cruisers were not thinking it was race training, but more bunch riding and pace line.
I guess the thing with this type of training, is that you have to do it to the slowest rider - Its not a race, its training. You can't sharpen skills doing anything at a pace where riders are getting tired. I guess in a good pace line, part of the early skills for us learners is to keep a steady pace and keep the bunch together - no gaps.
The fast guys aren't actually the people that need the skills training, so maybe it's best if they do a separate FAST group and the levels are worked out a bit better. Mike C and I, and I think even Micklan dropped off the pace in the 2nd group.
I agree with Wieyun though that the Park at Centenial at the moment has heaps of traffic. Weekends and weekdays. Even at 5.30 in the morning it is chocko's.
All in all, it is good to see the club making efforts to help our riders, as the club is getting bigger and every little bit helps.
I guess the thing with this type of training, is that you have to do it to the slowest rider - Its not a race, its training. You can't sharpen skills doing anything at a pace where riders are getting tired. I guess in a good pace line, part of the early skills for us learners is to keep a steady pace and keep the bunch together - no gaps.
The fast guys aren't actually the people that need the skills training, so maybe it's best if they do a separate FAST group and the levels are worked out a bit better. Mike C and I, and I think even Micklan dropped off the pace in the 2nd group.
I agree with Wieyun though that the Park at Centenial at the moment has heaps of traffic. Weekends and weekdays. Even at 5.30 in the morning it is chocko's.
All in all, it is good to see the club making efforts to help our riders, as the club is getting bigger and every little bit helps.
The second group led my Toff and myself may have been a little quick at times. But what we were aiming for was riding close together at a reasonable pace with corners, as this is what racing at Heffron is. Even if you're not going to race this will help with important things like holding your line and keeping a constant pace.
I'm not sure Heffron is a overly good place to be doing paceline training due to the width changes of the track and the corners.
I'm not sure Heffron is a overly good place to be doing paceline training due to the width changes of the track and the corners.
The issue is obviously in the misunderstanding of what type of training we were meant to be doing. I am sure the next one will be better.The second group led my Toff and myself may have been a little quick at times. But what we were aiming for was riding close together at a reasonable pace with corners, as this is what racing at Heffron is. Even if you're not going to race this will help with important things like holding your line and keeping a constant pace.
It would be hard for new riders to learn fast cornering and paceline at the same time. Slow down and just focus on smooth rolling off would make a lot more sense. Keep the pace very even and allow riders to gain the confidence of riding close to the rider in front would be another major focus.
I got there late - what impressed me is that one chap (name, Doug?) went straight from the training run to race in D grade in first race - that was excellent, he slipped his pedal at the start then got it going under Geoff's chaperone
Other feedback I heard was another new D grade rider said first time ever to race and will do it again...
BTW - it is a tradition is it not, for those who had there first race to post a report - the first time I went round in E grade Weiyun gave me a prompt for a report - in summary - it was a blast
I think it's a very positive intitiative; I hope D grade can become more populated. I'll try C grade from which I do get dropped...
Other feedback I heard was another new D grade rider said first time ever to race and will do it again...
BTW - it is a tradition is it not, for those who had there first race to post a report - the first time I went round in E grade Weiyun gave me a prompt for a report - in summary - it was a blast
I think it's a very positive intitiative; I hope D grade can become more populated. I'll try C grade from which I do get dropped...
And my first Heffron race report was prompted by Lindsay.
I am waiting for the school holidays so that I can escape Sat PM duties and come back for a spin at Heffron. Miss it. Question is, should I go for D (old C) or C?
I am waiting for the school holidays so that I can escape Sat PM duties and come back for a spin at Heffron. Miss it. Question is, should I go for D (old C) or C?
Rubbish! I'll sacrifice in B if you join me.at least B grade
Seriously though, I won the old D grade once (never other placing in prior races) and then they restructured their grading. Raced in the new D once and was dropped. I think that I can be competitive in the current D but will likely get dropped in C.
I think there's something to be said about that, especially given the recent paceline training arrangement. But alas, it's RBCC's call.BRING BACK E AND F GRADE....YAY!!!
Yes, that's my thoughts too.Weiyun - I'd say have a go in D firstly then go to C...etc
I've posted some photos from the racing that followed the training - click here to see them
BTW, Geoff, as the creator can you make this post "non-sticky" as this doesn't need to be at the top all the time now
BTW, Geoff, as the creator can you make this post "non-sticky" as this doesn't need to be at the top all the time now
ill be doin a b grade ride some time soon, you ride in the fast group to waterfall more often than meRubbish! I'll sacrifice in B if you join me.
Seriously though, I won the old D grade once (never other placing in prior races) and then they restructured their grading. Raced in the new D once and was dropped. I think that I can be competitive in the current D but will likely get dropped in C.
if im a maybe for it, you must be Hi Steve - This training was a one off event and is not a regular part of DHBC's training program at this time. However, the criterium racing, organised by RBCC is on most Saturdays with the next races on Sat 25th April. It will also include "skills training" at 13:00 before racing at 14:00 but is organised by RBCC, not DHBC (as far as I am aware).Hi All, im keen to join the training session.
will we still be departing from Mick Mazza, on the last Saturday of the month, if so what time ???
Saturday program will resume at Heffron on 25 April with Senior skill training and Junior racing at 1pm and A, B, C & D grade racing at 2pm.
See the Randwick Botany Website for details on the racing and be aware you need a full Cycling Australia racing licence to compete.
I am a realist. I know my limits.ill be doin a b grade ride some time soon, you ride in the fast group to waterfall more often than me
The other way to look at this is. Heffron is a flat course where pure power counts. For me, although I can keep up with the Fasties (most times) on the way up to Waterfall (power to weight ratio benefit), I typically get dropped on the flat/downhill rush to Sutherland. So no, B is definitely not for me.
Board it and add banking, you'll go even better!man heffron isnt flat!! theres hills! make it flat and ill go heaps better
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