Dulwich Hill Bicycle Club

Whenever it rains even lightly, we can't ride on Tempe velodrome. Tonight, three sunny days after recent rain finished, there is still a big area on the west bank where water is soaking out of the track preventing us from training. I keep imagining a roof could be built over the track and the grandstand to keep out most of the rain. What do you guys think?

It's an idea that's been had before. There's certainly an opportunity to write a funding submission but that will require a fair bit of work. But if that's something you'd like to be involved in ... let me know!

Yeah l'm interested if there is some agreement it is worth pursuing.
John

Lizanne mentioned moss on the track this morning. I can see a stilt green tint on the track in your photo. A roof would be an added safety measure and the council wouldn't have to keep water blasting the track clean.

A good thought but I cant see Canterbury paying out the half a million necessary to cover and light the track. The track normally dries out very quickly after the rain, its normally only in winter that there is a real problem.

A good thought but I cant see Canterbury paying out the half a million necessary to cover and light the track. The track normally dries out very quickly after the rain, its normally only in winter that there is a real problem.

Half a million? And the rest...

Half a million? And the rest...

Yes, half M sounded way too low. What would be your professionally guided quote? $3M plus?

Yes, half M sounded way too low. What would be your professionally guided quote? $3M plus?

The problem is the cost of steel. At a guess I'd say $10-$15M for a simple barn-like structure. It would be less if you had columns in the field but would never get away with that.

Dunc Gray cost $42M 15 years ago.

They'd never 'just' put a roof on though. Would they consider upgrading an imperial track? Doubtful. So you'd be looking at about $40M - $50M for a new facility without any of the trimmings of Dunc Gray (if you can say DGV has trimmings)...

wow i would NEVER have guess how much that would cost!

thought i still can't really understand how a concrete velodrome, say in the style of bowral could be that expensive. and then to put a roof over it? if those project home can be built for a couple hundred grand surely they can build a box over a 250m track you would think?

...if those project home can be built for a couple hundred grand surely they can build a box over a 250m track you would think?

This is hardly a project home is it? No cheap/unlicensed tradies allowed. It'll need to be custom designed, individual components custom manufactured, insurance, constructed in satisfaction of all regulatory requirements as well as that OH&S guidelines. Not surprised by Jo's professional guidance at all. At $15M plus, better just be happy with what's already there and make the best of it.

Project homes are constructed from timber, bricks and plasterboard. All 'relatively' cheap materials.

A roof over Tempe would need to be constructed from steel which, at the moment, costs upwards of $6,000.00 a tonne (though potentially less since the dollar crashed overnight!). It would then need to be covered with Colorbond.

As I said, if you could put columns in the centre of the field it could be less as you would not need beams so big to span the distance, hence, less tonnage.

And isn't our track 333m? Not 250m? Not that that would have a particular impact on the overall cost.

We have a committee meeting next week. If we wanted to have a serious discussion about it I could pull out figures and put a more accurate forecast against it.

Has retro-fitting an outdoor velodrome ever been done before?
I can't seem to find evidence on the web.

Also, is there a report on open track vs close or half closed track due to wetness - to form as a basis of the net gain (use) with a roof?

Right on! what would be the point of just covers? When it rains, it blows and any spray would lead to the cancellation of track activities. So logic dictates it's either open or fully enclosed. Google search seems to support the same.

Also, why is it only the north end of the velodrome track that is unusable?
It didn't seem to me it was just surface wetness.
Is it from the rain dropping? Or is it from the grounds, sucked up by the porous nature of the track surface?
- something a partial roof might not solve?

for the record, I would like to see the facility be available all year round,
- we need to know the underlying cause of the wetness, possible solutions and their cost-benefit, and would be easier if there are precedents that can be used.

As far as I know it's the only section of track that doesn't see the sun during the winter days... Hence why it's always wet. Alex can probably confirm or deny this.

The current wetness on the track is soaking out through the concrete from underneath/behind. It is not more shaded than other parts of tge track rhar are now dry. It might be possible to install extra sub-surface drainage to reduce or eliminate rhis particular problem.

remember that June was the wettest June in 10 years maybe ever so the wicking effect of the south band has been exaggerated. This is the worst I've seen as last year it was dry when not raining and the year before the wicking was only in 1 or 2 sports and not as bad. Also to correct John the south end is not getting any sun at the moment.

The problem is the cost of steel. At a guess I'd say $10-$15M for a simple barn-like structure. It would be less if you had columns in the field but would never get away with that.

Dunc Gray cost $42M 15 years ago.

They'd never 'just' put a roof on though. Would they consider upgrading an imperial track? Doubtful. So you'd be looking at about $40M - $50M for a new facility without any of the trimmings of Dunc Gray (if you can say DGV has trimmings)...

To clarify I was thinking more along the lines of covering only the actual track itself, not the center field as well. You could just use a cantilevered awning setup then.

Obviously my number was just a wild guess to indicate the unfeasible nature of the project. Estimation obviously isnt my area

obviously its not a project home, thanks for the heads up. just suprised when i see them fling up apartment blocks, warehouses etc seemingly overnight that it would cost so much to put a simple roof on. of course as jo says if thats what it costs then thats what it costs.
wind will only blow rain in so far, so i don't see why it necessarily would have to be 'all or nothing'. anyways im no engineer so have no idea.

the velodrome in the video that tim sent around a while back of josiah ng doing a flying 200m was at a covered track with open middle wasnt it? tim do you know where that track was at?

also, how about all weather tracks like in japan? how much does those surfaces cost?

Correct Colin (but you meant the north end not south) – according to non-experts with iPhones, the sun's elevation right now (i.e. winter) is about 30° max, and as you can see in the attached images, the morning/evening rays won't really touch it – it would be plausible that it just hasn't dried out from a good soaking. Summer comparison added, and you can see that the sun coverage is a lot more generous.

On the other hand, the light is rather good for photography right now.

Winter



Summer

oh yeah and as colin said that was some serious rain... like 2 weeks non-stop...

i would LOVE if tempe was a blue all weather keiran track though!! maybe we could open a keiren school in the grandstand!

Probably best not to bring it up, as I can see the council taking the most cost-effective option and just closing the track as it would be deemed 'unsafe'.
My solution would be to pour petrol on the mould and set it alight, thus killing it with fire.

The track needs to be cleaned to get ride of the moss/algae/mold. This means it would have to be repainted as well as anything that's going to work is likely to take the paint off. We shall get someone on the committee to organise calling the council regarding this. In my 7 years of riding at Tempe this is the worst I've seen it, but as Colin stated, it did rain for two weeks,

What about having some sort of water proof cloth that could be rolled down onto the track after training to keep the water off?

Chlorine gets rid of mould, It's cheap and if you add a high pressure cleaning at the same time the track will look a million dollars.

Yeah, two issues with floating the upgrade:

1 as Rhys states, the council could close it as councils are extremely risk adverse! Not a good outcome
2 could consider upgrading the facility, converting the track to a multi purpose venue and perhaps losing some access. Good and bad

We've covered the costs of the upgrade so I won't go into that. Factor in lighting and operating costs and may become too pricey to rent!

I can remember this being proposed on at least two separate occasions, the last by Phil Bates just a few years ago which was not particularly successful. The time before Brad suggested we funded it by putting a big coca cola sign on top of the roof because it is directly under the flight path but the council were not interested, coca cola were very interested.

You must remember that the other primary use for the in field of the velodrome is the state touch associations main ground which they use for state championships. A roof would compromise their grass and thus be unlikely to be approved. Cycling NSW let Touch NSW take over main ownership of the venue and at present we both use it without conflict and I think it is better to leave it this way.

The council has cleaned and repainted the velodrome a number of times over the last decade & I think would be very willing to do it again for safety.

a word of warning, Never use the word safety when communicating with council.

The time before Brad suggested we funded it by putting a big coca cola sign on top of the roof because it is directly under the flight path but the council were not interested, coca cola were very interested.

That would be so cool...

Another sunnish day, but yet another wet track = gaggle of budding trackies with too much energy and not enough track

Avoiding the council route....

How about a couple of portable air movers / carpet dryers / ?
http://www.kennards.com.au/index.php?fu ... ying&lvl=2
http://www.heater-store.com/electric_sa ... 33_ctg.htm
Placed at the duckboard area and blowing upslope - would that have worked for the condition of the track yesterday?

Or something involving a contraption made with heat lamps - placed close to the surface for some intense heat treatment ?

Workable & cost effective ?

a word of warning, Never use the word safety when communicating with council.

Agreed.
Some council officers can be over zealous. Worse scenario envisaged resultant of this.

That's an old board track, no? Name? Location?

Vigorelli Velodrome in Milan.
Maybe they would sell it to us!
Then again, maybe all the shade would just put slime on all the track, not just the north end....

Check out the yerevan velodrome.

Hmmm.... I think the chlorine's more our budget. Perhaps one day when we are a great nation like Armenia....

Training doomed tonight ?
The roads were wet this morning...